And creating extra laws, enforcing them on others and placing them in the same regard as God's laws is legalism. It is vital to let God's word guide us in this so that we neither abuse our Christian liberties nor trap ourselves in legalism.
God does.
Adhering to and loving God's laws is not legalism. Living by them in order to try and gain favour or earn salvation is legalism. And creating extra laws, enforcing them on others and placing them in the same regard as God's laws is legalism. It is vital to let God's word guide us in this so that we neither abuse our Christian liberties nor trap ourselves in legalism.
Yep. I mean, it's great to have certain convictions (and as Christians, we should have our own). But to say certain convictions are a matter of one's salvation, that's where the legalism sets in.
For example, one may have the conviction against listening to CCM (or rather, any music style that has even a remote contemporary or jazzy flair to it) -- mainly sticking to music styles deemed "traditional". Actually having a conviction like that is not legalism... unless the person with said conviction condemns and judges another person for not having the same conviction. Then again, the one who doesn't have the conviction should not give the one who does a bad time, either.
I mentioned Romans 14 in an earlier post. Let's take a deeper look into it, highlighting the first four verses:
"Receive one who is weak in the faith, but not to disputes over doubtful things. For one believes he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats only vegetables. Let not him who eats despise him who does not eat, and let not him who does not eat judge him who eats; for God has received him. Who are you to judge another's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand."
This tells me that one thing that might be wrong in the eyes of one may not be wrong to another, even among fellow believers. In this case, it talks of the issue of eating meat, but I believe other "iffy" issues can be applied here. Therefore, while we all have our own opinions on things as well as the right to express them, I believe there comes a time to agree to disagree, and focus on the common bond all believers share -- and that's faith in Jesus Christ.
God bless you all.
__________________ "Oh, give thanks to the Lord, for He is good! For His mercy endures forever." -- Psalm 136:1
Last edited by WannaWitness; 14th October 2009 at 12:01 PM.
__________________ If two friends ask you to judge a dispute, don't accept, because you will lose one friend; on the other hand, if two strangers come with the same request, accept because you will gain one friend. Augustine
It was working yesterday but looks like the website was brought down. Maybe they could pay the bill. lol!!!!
The short of it, there is a new church in NC called Amazing Grace Baptist Church that is promoting a book burning which included all bible translations except for the KJV which they consider the only inspired bible. In addition to burning the bibles they are also burning books written by those they call "heretics" (do not use a KJV) which included NT Wright, John Piper, John MacArthur, Bruce Metzer, and others. They were also burning music by contemporary Christian groups including Amy Grant, Cris Tomlin, Casting Crowns, etc.
BTW- They were serving BBQ and fried chicken with all the sides.lol!!!
__________________ If two friends ask you to judge a dispute, don't accept, because you will lose one friend; on the other hand, if two strangers come with the same request, accept because you will gain one friend. Augustine
It was working yesterday but looks like the website was brought down. Maybe they could pay the bill. lol!!!!
The short of it, there is a new church in NC called Amazing Grace Baptist Church that is promoting a book burning which included all bible translations except for the KJV which they consider the only inspired bible. In addition to burning the bibles they are also burning books written by those they call "heretics" (do not use a KJV) which included NT Wright, John Piper, John MacArthur, Bruce Metzer, and others. They were also burning music by contemporary Christian groups including Amy Grant, Cris Tomlin, Casting Crowns, etc.
BTW- They were serving BBQ and fried chicken with all the sides.lol!!!
Ooooooh, that is a bit extreme. I'm not saying someone can't have those as convictions, but I think sometimes things can be carried a bit far.
Their food sounds good enough!
But, hey... there are some people who actually view eating meat as a sin. That just goes to show that within the realm of Christianity, we never run out of things to argue about. I don't know about anyone else, but that's a bit frightening to me. It goes without saying that we will all have different opinions on things, and we have a right to express them, but there should come a time when we, as believers, should stop fighting and learn to get along despite our disagreements.
__________________ "Oh, give thanks to the Lord, for He is good! For His mercy endures forever." -- Psalm 136:1
Last edited by WannaWitness; 15th October 2009 at 11:50 AM.
Who determines if we are fundamentalists or legalistic? Isn't that rather presumptive and judgemental?
Two thoughts. First we determine if we are fundamentalists if we personally believe that the Word of God is true and authoritative in all matters, speaking as it does with the Voice of God. A true fundamentalist cannot ignore the Scripture, and what the Scripture teaches. So in that sense its self-determined. Legalism/Legalistic-ness is a little more tricky. The way I perceive legalism in a church is whether or not the church (or individual) makes a judgement on whether or not someone is saved based on their beliefs on certain issues (the pre-trib/post-trib and KJV only debates come to mind). To do such replaces the salvation by grace with salvation by law. Legalism is not just found in Fundamentalist churches either in that regard....some Charismatic and Pentecostal churches say that if you don't speak in tounges, then youre not saved. Things as far as dress, end-times theology, what version of the Bible you use, etc in my mind are personal convictions that cannot be forced on others. I believe its important for the church to have standards, but to enforce something which is a personal conviction for you down the throat of someone who doesn't share that conviction and best encourages obedience without understanding and at worst creates a rift in fellowship.
Has anyone on here been hurt by fundamentalist legalism, bully pulpits, gossip culture, pre-trib-premill-onlyism etc? I am a calvinist fundamentalist so I'm not as ruled by the outward trappings of fundamentalism as I read the Scripture in community and for myself but I've seen so many damaged and presented with a gospel with no hope, just laws, no aid in sanctification but human striving. The Holy Spirit sanctifies us gradually according to His will but certain fundies make it about outward forms.
No, Legalism is easy to spot and avoid. What bugs me are the liberal moral relativists that have crept into the church and are destroying it from within. You know the ones...pro-abortion, pro-homosexual marriage et al ad nauseum.
I would avoid a moral relativist like the plague, but I can more easily forgive the errors of legalism.
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Both those facts support what TrutherAU pointed out.
My wife and I also have both been hurt by extreme charismatics. I now consider myself a Fundamentalist and a Calvinist. Also, I do not believe legalism should have any place among believers in a Christian Church. Fundamentalism and Legalism are two different viewpoints.
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