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2nd July 2009, 04:16 PM
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Reps: 3,545,843,110,589,445,120 (power: 3,545,843,110,589,478) | | Originally Posted by redwards  Certainly. Any particular hypothesis regarding earthly abiogenesis would be utterly shaken by the discovery of extraterrestrial eukaryotes.
Why? Where not other worlds part of the universe?
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2nd July 2009, 04:17 PM
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Reps: 110,182,959,778,071,968 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by Hentenza That would basically mean that you do not believe in any singular event that has ever happened. Curious.
Not beyond curious how you ever came to that conclusion. |
2nd July 2009, 04:19 PM
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Reps: 9,223,372,036,854,775,808 (power: 9,223,372,036,856,908) | | | At the risk of sounding intellectual, there's no such thing as abiogenesis.
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2nd July 2009, 04:21 PM
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Reps: 3,545,843,110,589,445,120 (power: 3,545,843,110,589,478) | | Originally Posted by Bombila I suppose you will only cite the effects of 'The Fall', but nature provides some pretty horrific examples of creation in the form of parasites, prey animals eaten alive by predators, natural poisons which cause the eater to die in agony, and so on.
I've always thought it far easier to consider the possibility of a benevolent God if you admit to evolution being the method of creation. Lets the deity off the hook for a lot of dismal realities.
Why would I cite the fall when discussing animal behavior? The fall technically only affected man not animals.
BTW- the discussion that I am having relates to the topic of this thread which is creation. Evolution does not address origins.
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“You are the salt of the earth; but if the salt loses its flavor, how shall it be seasoned? It is then good for nothing but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot by men. “You are the light of the world. A city that is set on a hill cannot be hidden. Nor do they light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on a lampstand, and it gives light to all who are in the house. Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven.- Our Lord and Savior. |
2nd July 2009, 04:26 PM
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Reps: 110,182,959,778,071,968 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by Hentenza Why would I cite the fall when discussing animal behavior? The fall technically only affected man not animals.
BTW- the discussion that I am having relates to the topic of this thread which is creation. Evolution does not address origins.
This is what is so confusing about trying to find out what Christians are talking about! I have been told, and read here any number of times that "the fall" is what kicked the 2nd law of thermodynamics, the lions started eating the lambs, etc. Now it didnt affect the animals at all? Sheesh. |
2nd July 2009, 04:30 PM
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Reps: 3,545,843,110,589,445,120 (power: 3,545,843,110,589,478) | | Originally Posted by Hespera I guess I dont l\know what you mean by creation or creationism. There are so many schools of thought, so ..... can you explain what you mean?
And what would be an example of evidence for a creator?
Well, I believe that the casualty argument does posit a cause and the cause must be uncaused. My "leap" of faith is to believe that the Christian God is that uncaused cause. I also believe that the intricate and complicated nature of organisms rule out a chance event as the original cause.
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“You are the salt of the earth; but if the salt loses its flavor, how shall it be seasoned? It is then good for nothing but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot by men. “You are the light of the world. A city that is set on a hill cannot be hidden. Nor do they light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on a lampstand, and it gives light to all who are in the house. Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven.- Our Lord and Savior. |
2nd July 2009, 04:30 PM
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Reps: 9,223,372,036,854,775,808 (power: 9,223,372,036,856,908) | | Originally Posted by Hespera This is what is so confusing about trying to find out what Christians are talking about! I have been told, and read here any number of times that "the fall" is what kicked the 2nd law of thermodynamics, the lions started eating the lambs, etc. Now it didnt affect the animals at all? Sheesh.
There were lions in Eden?
Were you there?
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2nd July 2009, 04:34 PM
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Reps: 3,545,843,110,589,445,120 (power: 3,545,843,110,589,478) | | Originally Posted by Hespera Not beyond curious how you ever came to that conclusion.
Just because from our conversation I see that you view evidence as repeatable which negates evidence that is not. If I am wrong here please correct me. 
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“You are the salt of the earth; but if the salt loses its flavor, how shall it be seasoned? It is then good for nothing but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot by men. “You are the light of the world. A city that is set on a hill cannot be hidden. Nor do they light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on a lampstand, and it gives light to all who are in the house. Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven.- Our Lord and Savior. |
2nd July 2009, 04:35 PM
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Reps: 15,346,878,439,292 (power: 15,346,878,448) | | Originally Posted by Hespera This is what is so confusing about trying to find out what Christians are talking about! I have been told, and read here any number of times that "the fall" is what kicked the 2nd law of thermodynamics, the lions started eating the lambs, etc. Now it didnt affect the animals at all? Sheesh.
Exactly. The problem is that there are so many different shades of belief among Christians that pinning a group of creationists down is like bailing a boatload of half-set jello. They all settle on different degrees of belief in what we see as natural. There's no telling, until you've talked with them a long time, where their beliefs will diverge from your own naturalism into a refusal to accept that God could possibly have done whatever-it-is that way. |
2nd July 2009, 04:39 PM
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| | Join Date: 16th December 2008 Location: usa
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Reps: 110,182,959,778,071,968 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by Hentenza Well, I believe that the casualty argument does posit a cause and the cause must be uncaused. My "leap" of faith is to believe that the Christian God is that uncaused cause. I also believe that the intricate and complicated nature of organisms rule out a chance event as the original cause.
Too may causes, original causes and uncaused causes for me, sorry. That makes no sense to me.
As for "chance" would you think that the intricate pattern of a watershed, all mathematical and highly structured, is that a chance event? Likewise many another highly ordered but non living thing?
To me the are the logical, inevitable consequence of energy matter and the laws that govern them.
And cause wise, we have the problem of what caused god and caused him to know how to do all this stuff. But thats going too far for this thread. | | |
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