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  #1  
Old 1st July 2009, 10:18 AM
chilehed's Avatar
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Where is the Church government established by Christ?

According to the Chapter 30 of the Westminster Confession:
1. The Lord Jesus, as king and head of his Church, hath therein appointed a government in the hand of Church officers, distinct from the civil magistrate.a

a. Isa 9:6-7; Mat 28:18-20; Acts 20:17, 28; 1 Cor 12:28; 1 Thes 5:12; 1 Tim 5:17; Heb 13:7, 17, 24.
Where is this government headquartered today, and what evidence is there that it's the same one that Christ originally appointed?
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The Jews quarreled among themselves, saying, "How can this man give us (his) flesh to eat?"
Jesus said to them, "Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you....For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink..."
As a result of this, many (of) his disciples returned to their former way of life and no longer accompanied him...
John, Ch. 6
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  #2  
Old 10th July 2009, 01:47 PM
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The government exists wherever churches of Christ are extant and properly organized. There is no sacred location for the government of churches.

Scripture describes the organization. Its changes in Apostolic Successionist churches from what Christ and His Apostles originally instituted are well-documented in history.
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"... not an unconcerned sitting of God in heaven, from which He merely observes the things that are done in the world; but that all-active and all-concerned seatedness on His throne above, by which He governs the world which He Himself hath made." John Calvin

To us, O LORD, belongs open shame, to our kings, to our princes, and to our fathers, because we have sinned against you.
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  #3  
Old 11th July 2009, 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted by chilehed View Post
According to the Chapter 30 of the Westminster Confession:
1. The Lord Jesus, as king and head of his Church, hath therein appointed a government in the hand of Church officers, distinct from the civil magistrate.a

a. Isa 9:6-7; Mat 28:18-20; Acts 20:17, 28; 1 Cor 12:28; 1 Thes 5:12; 1 Tim 5:17; Heb 13:7, 17, 24.
Where is this government headquartered today, and what evidence is there that it's the same one that Christ originally appointed?
It's headquartered where its Head is, seated at the right hand of His Father.
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  #4  
Old 12th July 2009, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by heymikey80 View Post
The government exists wherever churches of Christ are extant and properly organized. There is no sacred location for the government of churches.
"Properly organized" presumes that there's a level of governance, greater than a particular church and lesser than Christ himself, which has the authority to establish standards by which a particular church can be said to be properly organized.

Who said anything about a "sacred location"? I don't know what you're talking about.

Originally Posted by heymikey80 View Post
Scripture describes the organization....
Scripture describes the Church as being a hierarchy, in which different people have different functions. Some are given to teach, and others are to be taught.

The Westminster Confession seems to agree with this, when in Chapter 31 it says that "It belongeth to synods and councils, ministerially, to determine controversies of faith, and cases of conscience...". Synods and councils are not organs of particular Churches, they are organs of the Church as a whole. This again presumes that there is a level of governance greater than the particular Churches, and lesser than Christ, which has the authority to call a synod or council.

I'm just wondering, since the men at the Westminster Assembly said that Christ established a Church government in the hands of Church officers, where is that government? The PCUSA can be contacted at the denominational office in Louisville, KY. The OPC can be contacted through its General Assembly office in Willow Grove, PA.

Where can I contact the current officers of the government that Christ established?
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The Jews quarreled among themselves, saying, "How can this man give us (his) flesh to eat?"
Jesus said to them, "Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you....For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink..."
As a result of this, many (of) his disciples returned to their former way of life and no longer accompanied him...
John, Ch. 6

Last edited by chilehed; 12th July 2009 at 10:25 AM.
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  #5  
Old 12th July 2009, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Epiphoskei View Post
It's headquartered where its Head is, seated at the right hand of His Father.
So then the Church officers to which the Confession refers are merely Christ himself? That sounds pretty goofy to me.
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The Jews quarreled among themselves, saying, "How can this man give us (his) flesh to eat?"
Jesus said to them, "Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you....For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink..."
As a result of this, many (of) his disciples returned to their former way of life and no longer accompanied him...
John, Ch. 6
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  #6  
Old 12th July 2009, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by chilehed View Post
So then the Church officers to which the Confession refers are merely Christ himself? That sounds pretty goofy to me.
No, the Church's head is Christ himself. You asked where it was headquartered, I told you. The individual officers may be found in their respective churches.
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  #7  
Old 12th July 2009, 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Epiphoskei View Post
No, the Church's head is Christ himself. You asked where it was headquartered, I told you. The individual officers may be found in their respective churches.
So then Christ established multiple governments, each in the hands of the officers of each particular Church?

If so, then why doesn't the Confession say that? That's not what the Confession says.
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The Jews quarreled among themselves, saying, "How can this man give us (his) flesh to eat?"
Jesus said to them, "Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you....For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink..."
As a result of this, many (of) his disciples returned to their former way of life and no longer accompanied him...
John, Ch. 6
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  #8  
Old 13th July 2009, 02:40 PM
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They're not multiple governments. You're mistaking federal or confederal government for multiplicity of government.
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Old 13th July 2009, 05:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Epiphoskei View Post
They're not multiple governments. You're mistaking federal or confederal government for multiplicity of government.
So how can I contact the officers at the "federal" level of this government? And what evidence is there that those officers hold positions in the same hierarchy that Christ established?
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The Jews quarreled among themselves, saying, "How can this man give us (his) flesh to eat?"
Jesus said to them, "Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you....For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink..."
As a result of this, many (of) his disciples returned to their former way of life and no longer accompanied him...
John, Ch. 6
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  #10  
Old 13th July 2009, 05:57 PM
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You can find them at most any church that confesses the gospel (which ought to be a tautology). If they hold Biblical positions in the Church, by definition they are in the same "hierarchy" as Christ founded.
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