Creation & EvolutionForum for the discussion of this important topic. This forum is open to non-believers. There is a Christians-only forum in the Christians-only section too.
I did not say they did not I am saying what they give us could be untrue and it is not "stable" as theories contradict each other.... with new findings. I have to vaccinate my child it is the law and actually some vaccines can and have given children diseases. The flue shot can give you athritis I know a friend who has it...It has almost 1 or 2 percent risk...Is that perfect? do not think so...
Ok... let's say it wasn't a law. Would you still have your kids vaccinated?
You think evolution goes against God. That is why you think it is "unreliable," not because it is science.
No...it is quite the opposite I want my child to be "educated" and not to think rubbish equals facts... .that is why. God is above science anyways... But for my child to be blind folded to beleive all science is 100% because evolutionists want her to believe it...that is when the agenta comes in....
Everthing in science is taken as tentative.
thank you that is my point. To try to say that is not is untrue and it does harm education. That is all I am saying and everyone here seems to jump on me...
I am not saying this to totally discredit it ..(although at times it does that in its own) but the facts point to not putting our trust in science. We use it but still that is not "belief" as of "trust" but ephemeral and quite unstable as far as its outcome.
I do not doubt that science has intergrity either I know they most work towards the betterment of society. God has given us Science to use it as a tool no doubt about that either but we do not turn it into a religion either as it is a gift of God. We do not turn a gift into god... as he would be an unreable god.
__________________ No one on this earth can avoid affliction; and although the
afflictions which the Lord sends are not great men imagine them
beyond their strength and are crushed by them. This is because
they will not humble their souls and commit themselves to the will
of God. But the Lord Himself guides with His grace those who are
given over to God's will, and they bear all things with fortitude
for the sake of God Whom they have so loved and with Whom they are
glorified for ever. It is impossible to escape tribulation in this
world but the man who is giver over to the will of God bears
tribulation easily, seeing it but putting his trust in the Lord,
and so his tribulations pass.
I don't have any kids... although I do look forward to one day being a parent.
When the time comes, I intend to teach my children to question the world around them. I will teach them to examine the evidence for any position, and determine if that position is more plausible than another position. I will teach them that it's ok to be wrong, and that discovery comes from the realization that an existing conclusion may be flawed.
I will do all of this so that they will NOT take anything at face value, scientific theories included.
I will do this so that when they see overwhelming evidence supporting scientific theories, they will understand why those theories are reliable.
I will do this so that when they are told about creationism, they will ask to see the evidence... and when none can be presented... they will know exactly what those ideas are worth.
That is good at least and that is what I am planning to do too but your kids will be at disadvantage because the state will not teach them about creationism. (not that I agree with it though 100% I am not a literatist)
But the fact they are taught Evolution as a mandra is not right either.
__________________ No one on this earth can avoid affliction; and although the
afflictions which the Lord sends are not great men imagine them
beyond their strength and are crushed by them. This is because
they will not humble their souls and commit themselves to the will
of God. But the Lord Himself guides with His grace those who are
given over to God's will, and they bear all things with fortitude
for the sake of God Whom they have so loved and with Whom they are
glorified for ever. It is impossible to escape tribulation in this
world but the man who is giver over to the will of God bears
tribulation easily, seeing it but putting his trust in the Lord,
and so his tribulations pass.
No...it is quite the opposite I want my child to be "educated" and not to think rubbish equals facts... .that is why. God is above science anyways... But for my child to be blind folded to beleive all science is 100% because evolutionists want her to believe it...that is when the agenta comes in....
thank you that is my point. To try to say that is not is untrue and it does harm education. That is all I am saying and everyone here seems to jump on me...
I am not saying this to totally discredit it ..(although at times it does that in its own) but the facts point to not putting our trust in science. We use it but still that is not "belief" as of "trust" but ephemeral and quite unstable as far as its outcome.
I do not doubt that science has intergrity either I know they most work towards the betterment of society. God has given us Science to use it as a tool no doubt about that either but we do not turn it into a religion either as it is a gift of God. We do not turn a gift into god... as he would be an unreable god.
THAT's your problem? Who said science should replace god? Who said science should be a religion?
No...it is quite the opposite I want my child to be "educated" and not to think rubbish equals facts... .that is why. God is above science anyways... But for my child to be blind folded to beleive all science is 100% because evolutionists want her to believe it...that is when the agenta comes in....
thank you that is my point. To try to say that is not is untrue and it does harm education. That is all I am saying and everyone here seems to jump on me...
I am not saying this to totally discredit it ..(although at times it does that in its own) but the facts point to not putting our trust in science. We use it but still that is not "belief" as of "trust" but ephemeral and quite unstable as far as its outcome.
I do not doubt that science has intergrity either I know they most work towards the betterment of society. God has given us Science to use it as a tool no doubt about that either but we do not turn it into a religion either as it is a gift of God. We do not turn a gift into god... as he would be an unreable god.
Religion functions on "faith" does it not? Believe because this is what you are told. Science is about a way of thinking, not belief. It puts everything to the test... something religion doesnt and cant do.
If science is taught badly... which it is....and people are just taught to memorize facts and stuff that is easy to test.. that is the fault of the teachers, school system and the public, not of science.
I doubt that one in a hundred graduating high school studnets has even heard of the idea that science does not propose to prove theory but to try to falsiy theories. Perhaps you dont know that either.
You cant discredit evolution and it does not discredit itself. i dont know where you'd get such ideas, but no such idea would stand up to actually being looked at.
That is good at least and that is what I am planning to do too but your kids will be at disadvantage because the state will not teach them about creationism.
How does the separation of church and state place a child at a disadvantage?
Originally Posted by Philothei
But the fact they are taught Evolution as a mandra is not right either.
Actually, having recently perused a middle school biology text book (just to see what children are actually being taught, as opposed to what some people believe they are being taught), evolution is not taught as a mantra. The mechanisms (descent with modification, gene flow, genetic drift, etc etc) are explained, multiple lines of evidence are presented, and the modern day relevance of the ToE is discussed.
Additionally, the term "Scientific Theory" was actually explained in its correct context, as opposed to the way it's tossed around by many Creationists.
__________________
"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use." Galileo Galilei
"Telling me the ToE is wrong is like telling a car mechanic
the internal combustion engine runs on magic."- Blayz
The POINT of Creationism, from an honest Creationist
"And yes, to prove evolution is wrong does not mean creation is right. But, the goal is just that, to prove evolution is wrong. Nothing else."
-juvenissun
No...it is quite the opposite I want my child to be "educated" and not to think rubbish equals facts... .that is why. God is above science anyways... But for my child to be blind folded to beleive all science is 100% because evolutionists want her to believe it...that is when the agenta comes in....
It seems you would like for your child to be blind-folded to believe your interpretation of scripture should be believed over what our best scientific theories tell us about the natural world. That is not teh same as informing them that science is "not perfect."
Originally Posted by Philothei
thank you that is my point. To try to say that is not is untrue and it does harm education. That is all I am saying and everyone here seems to jump on me...
You seem to be saying science should not be taught in science classes if it contradicts your interpretation of scripture.
Originally Posted by Philothei
I am not saying this to totally discredit it ..(although at times it does that in its own) but the facts point to not putting our trust in science. We use it but still that is not "belief" as of "trust" but ephemeral and quite unstable as far as its outcome.
You put your "trust" in science every day of the week. I'm surprised you are not dead by now, considering how "ephemeral" you claim science is....
Originally Posted by Philothei
I do not doubt that science has intergrity either I know they most work towards the betterment of society. God has given us Science to use it as a tool no doubt about that either but we do not turn it into a religion either as it is a gift of God. We do not turn a gift into god... as he would be an unreable god.
Science is not a religion nor a replacement for religion. It is man who has given us science, however, not God.
Let's do a little Q&A
Q: Are scienctific theories perfect?
A: No.
Q: Is science a reliable tool to understand the natural world?
A: Yes.
Q: Is my interpretation of scripture perfect?
A: No.
Q: Should my interpretation of scripture supercede science when it comes to explaining the natural (not the supernatural) world?
A: No.
__________________ “The biblical story of the perfect and finished creation from which human beings fell into sin is pre-Darwinian mythology and post-Darwinian nonsense." -Bishop John Shelby Spong
"It is not the obligation of the State to reconcile various faiths with reality. Do it yourself." -Atomweaver
"We have designed our civilization based on science and technology and at the same time arranged things so that almost no one understands anything at all about science and technology. This is a clear prescription for disaster."
- Carl Sagan (Demon Haunted World)
I don't have any kids... although I do look forward to one day being a parent.
When the time comes, I intend to teach my children to question the world around them. I will teach them to examine the evidence for any position, and determine if that position is more plausible than another position. I will teach them that it's ok to be wrong, and that discovery comes from the realization that an existing conclusion may be flawed.
I will do all of this so that they will NOT take anything at face value, scientific theories included.
Against this one:
Originally Posted by Philothei
But for my child to be blind folded to beleive all science is 100% because evolutionists want her to believe it...that is when the agenta comes in....
Philothei drapes a science education in the verbiage of religious absolutist dogma and conspiracy, and then attacks it based on her chosen verbiage. But the truth is, a good science education only results from the kind of approach that Jester4Kicks describes.
Philothei, I think that the real issue here is that the conclusions of science on this one topic (evolution) run contrary to something you believe to be a matter critical to your faith, and so you're looking for ways to attack that one topic. You fail, because in the process, you unknowingly attack related scientific topics which you find to be otherwise acceptable. We don't get to pick and choose science in such a fashion on the basis of our personal beliefs.
I am not saying this to totally discredit it ..(although at times it does that in its own) but the facts point to not putting our trust in science. We use it but still that is not "belief" as of "trust" but ephemeral and quite unstable as far as its outcome.
I'll stick with science over religion on the mundane stuff, like "how things work", thanks; I'd rather be a little more right tomorrow, than be always wrong forever.
\I do not doubt that science has intergrity either I know they most work towards the betterment of society. God has given us Science to use it as a tool no doubt about that either but we do not turn it into a religion either as it is a gift of God. We do not turn a gift into god... as he would be an unreable god.
Trying to turn science into religion is exactly what you are dong, though. Look at the words bolded from your quotes; that isn't verbiage any scientist would use to describe their own work. Its verbiage you chose in an attempt to denigrate science.
Originally Posted by Philothei
That is good at least and that is what I am planning to do too but your kids will be at disadvantage because the state will not teach them about creationism. (not that I agree with it though 100% I am not a literatist)
But the fact they are taught Evolution as a mandra is not right either.
I assume you mean "mantra"; another example of hanging of religious verbiage on science...
What disadvantage are you referring to, that results from not being taught creationism? To the best of my knowledge, Creationism has yet to produce a single substantive (non-spiritual) benefit for mankind...
Juv sez..If you don't do it, somebody/something else will do it.QUOTE////////////
hespera sez
Yes, someone will take over from a society that deliberately teaches its kids to be ignorant.
They will probably have brown eyes and straight black hair. They wont be speaking English and they wont be christians.
Ha, ha ..., see what do they make? A smart girl like YOU.
Whenever you have chance to go back to your homeland, please visit the church there. You will be amazed on what kind of people Communist regime ultimately cultivated.
I am not a Creationist, but I worry about it being taught to our kids. Creationists have tons of drivel that many would love to foist on children in no position to question overwhelming authority. Obviously, not all Creationists are so militant. But I don't trust a single of them to properly educate children.
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