Is it time to return the Parthenon Marbles?

But the current “zeitgeist” seems to favor campaigners’ arguments. This year has seen renewed debate about art restitution with major museums under increasing pressure to return artifacts to their countries of origin. Both Greece and Italy have received antiquities from the Los Angeles J. Paul Getty Museum and New York’s Metropolitan Museum of Art after the pieces were shown to have been “improperly acquired.”
But these artifacts had been relatively recent acquisitions. Proving the ownership of antiquities spirited away from their original locations centuries ago is another matter, experts say. There is no legal framework to support restitution claims in such cases.

I guess some missed that ^

Also watching the videos is a good guide to the issue at hand

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Except for all the ones we don't know about because they don't exist anymore....

It is called a "selection effect".

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Oh yeah that is a valid argument... Like saying "you have been bad little boys and girls": and you cannot have what your ancestors worked for ... You have been beggars .... Nice analogy... and cheap excuse for not returning looting items .... posessed illegally

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Originally Posted by Philothei

Oh yeah that is a valid argument... Like saying "you have been bad little boys and girls": and you cannot have what your ancestors worked for ... You have been beggars .... Nice analogy... and cheap excuse for not returning looting items .... posessed illegally

At the very least, these countries who have acquired stolen priceless artifacts should
(1) pay an acceptable rental fee if and until such items are returned, or
(2) return the items in question.

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I do not understand why would someone with ownship has to have his "goods" on loan without their consent... It would be logical if the proper owner had a say as to whom he wants to lend those items and obviously the rightful owner does not want to lend them to anyone MR So your -a- solution is out of the question for the issue at hand. Would you give out the "constitution" on loan to the Brittish for an extented period of time that could be indefenately ? I think not...

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Again the idea that possession is 9/10 of the law is rooted in history.

Why do you think that they are having problems in Bosnia and in Cyprus?

The Muslims have taken over many churches and are stealing holy items from those Churches to sell on the black market. Sometimes the Church is able to get those items back if sold to museums, other times they are squirreled away in wealthy homes.

Again, people have different sets of beliefs.

However, looting and pillaging have been going on for a long time before recorded history. It certainly does not make the act right and I really do not think there is any way to stop it as long as the black market exists.

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Blessed art thou among women,
And blessed is the fruit of thy womb,
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Originally Posted by Philothei

I do not understand why would someone with ownship has to have his "goods" on loan without their consent... It would be logical if the proper owner had a say as to whom he wants to lend those items and obviously the rightful owner does not want to lend them to anyone MR So your -a- solution is out of the question for the issue at hand. Would you give out the "constitution" on loan to the Brittish for an extented period of time that could be indefenately ? I think not...

Upon further thought, IF the British were to pay a mandatory or voluntary rental fee, then THOSE rental fees would establish credibility for a future return of the item, wouldn't they?

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O Mary, Full of Grace;
The Lord is with thee.
Blessed art thou among women,
And blessed is the fruit of thy womb,
For thou hast borne the Savior of our souls.

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Glory to Jesus Christ!
Glory Forever!
O Giver of Life, Glory to Thee!


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Looting is justified as it is hapenning? We accept it as reality as long as "everyone is doing it"...I think not. Also paying for art is not looting. That is different. Some did indeed purchase those items on a official sale not through black market that is called legitemate sale. Governments did sell artifacts as nations. No one denies that. Again that was a looting act not a sale action.

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No because that will set a precident that all items that are given as a rental will necessarily be returned and that is not right either. Some were illegally taken and should be given to their rightful owners, period.
The idea of "renting" is absurd. If a country is not willing to "rent" their antiquities again they should not be forced to do so... The Brittish offers us to rent our "own" marbles.... as long as we "admit" that their belong to them... That is as absurd as those are Greek items and they have no legitemate paperwork plus the items themselves do not orginate from their culture.

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Originally Posted by Philothei

Looting is justified as it is hapenning? We accept it as reality as long as "everyone is doing it"...I think not. Also paying for art is not looting. That is different. Some did indeed purchase those items on a official sale not through black market that is called legitemate sale. Governments did sell artifacts as nations. No one denies that. Again that was a looting act not a sale action.

Looting is never justifiable.

If these looted objects were obtained by someone who then sold then on the legitimate market, there was still a wrong committed. The looted objects had to have been sold on the black market in order for them to somehow get onto the legitimate market. Or else a legitimate broker obtained them illegally and then fraudulently sold them at a legal auction. That so-called "legitimate" broker would not be very ethical then, would he? Certainly not. He is a criminal.

Money laundering?

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Virgin Theotokos, rejoice!
O Mary, Full of Grace;
The Lord is with thee.
Blessed art thou among women,
And blessed is the fruit of thy womb,
For thou hast borne the Savior of our souls.

+ + + + +

Glory to Jesus Christ!
Glory Forever!
O Giver of Life, Glory to Thee!


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