There are always going to be people who thrive on looking for opportunities to point the finger without looking in the mirror, in all aspects of life.
Yes, it is disturbing the amount of atttention the catholic church gets on this issue, when it happens everywhere.
I don't understand the vile anger that some have against other doctrines. I guess I do actually, but I don't agree with it. I may not agree with some teachings, but who am I/we to hatefully shove down others' throats our own. Whatever case you may find where debates are heated like this, it's usually both sides just feedng the fire and will never come to a solution. Repetitive cycles, where no one can stand not having the last word, all the while losing the original purpose.
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Last edited by byHISway; 27th June 2009 at 04:22 PM.
Reason: addition
Has anyone else noticed the way antiCatholic Protestants attack the Catholic church over the priestly child abuse scandals yet conveniently ignore cases of similar abuse in their own churches. Yes the incidents of priests abusing innocent children were despicable and it is equally despicable the way certain bishops covered them up. However the Catholic baiters who say these atrocities are "proof" that the Catholic church is evil, the "Wh*re of Babylon" etc conveniently forget about the paedophiles in their own midst. From what I've read both on the Net and in certain books written by Protestants children are being abused in Fundamentalist/Evangelical churches as well. Also the number of paedophile priests are a tiny percentage as are the number of paedophile Protestants (though even one priest/pastor abusing a child is one too many!) yet the way the antiCatholic Fundies talk nearly every priest is a paedophile. I just wish our enemies would get their own house in order before they attack us.
Excellent post. On this issue I have found myself defending the Catholic Church often. It saddens me that people can be so ignorant as to blame the Church for the sins of a few men. The fact that they sincerely believe that the RCC Christian is not Christian often makes it impossible to have a reasonable discussion with them.
I find the whole "but THEY'RE doing it too!" argument extremely distasteful and offensive. We need to keep our own house clean and despite all the strongly worded statements from the Bishops, I do not believe we have.
Cardinal Law still has his cushy job in the Vatican and the hierarchy, as much as it continues alternately wringing it's collective hands and looking ever so concerned about the matter, is difficult to take all that seriously considering that they only started after the issue blew up in their faces, having either ignored it or covered it up for decades at least.
I'm still angry about this and acknowledging that Protestants (or teachers, or scoutmasters, or coaches) have done it as well has not taken the edge off of my outrage in the least.
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“To let understanding stop at what cannot be understood is a high attainment. Those who cannot do it will be destroyed on the lathe of heaven.“ - Chuang Tzu
I highly doubt that anyone is trying to condone such heinous crimes, Anoetos. We are merely attempting to put things in perspective - people speak as though the Church is fraught with abominations like this, when in reality, men who commit such crimes only account for 1-2% of all the priests.
Giving an idea of perspective does not equal condoning or sweeping things under the rug. I personally am not trying to do either of those things, nor am I trying to trivialise them. I am just extremely upset by the fact that there are so many wonderful, loving, beautiful souls out there who are serving God's people as priests, and people are happy to toss them in with the sort who abuse and victimise children. That is not okay with me.
__________________
Formerly veritas_et_puritas
IC·XC·NI·KA
Sí na veth bâden im derel
Vi dúath dofn tummen.
Atham meraid velig a tynd
Athan eryd bain beraidh
Or 'waith bain nura Anor
A panlû elin cuinar
Ú-pedithon 'i-aur gwann'
Egor nai îl 'namárië'.
Here at my path's end I am lingering / In deep darkness buried / Beyond towers strong and high / Beyond all mountains steep
Above all shadows rides the sun/ And stars always dwell / I will not say, "The day is done" / or to the stars, "Farewell."
Has anyone else noticed the way antiCatholic Protestants attack the Catholic church over the priestly child abuse scandals yet conveniently ignore cases of similar abuse in their own churches. Yes the incidents of priests abusing innocent children were despicable and it is equally despicable the way certain bishops covered them up. However the Catholic baiters who say these atrocities are "proof" that the Catholic church is evil, the "Wh*re of Babylon" etc conveniently forget about the paedophiles in their own midst. From what I've read both on the Net and in certain books written by Protestants children are being abused in Fundamentalist/Evangelical churches as well. Also the number of paedophile priests are a tiny percentage as are the number of paedophile Protestants (though even one priest/pastor abusing a child is one too many!) yet the way the antiCatholic Fundies talk nearly every priest is a paedophile. I just wish our enemies would get their own house in order before they attack us.
It's a lot easier to throw a rock at one big unified target that doesn't move than at a countless small ones that are divided, always moving, changing, and going in every direction.
__________________ "The moral gravity of procured abortion is apparent in all its truth if we recognize that we are dealing with murder" - Pope John Paul II, Evangelium Vitae, par. 58
"Particular law remaining in force, the use of the Latin language is to be preserved in the Latin rites." -Vatican II, Sacrosanctum Concilium, par. 36
Last edited by LivingWordUnity; 27th June 2009 at 10:51 PM.
I find the whole "but THEY'RE doing it too!" argument extremely distasteful and offensive. We need to keep our own house clean and despite all the strongly worded statements from the Bishops, I do not believe we have.
Cardinal Law still has his cushy job in the Vatican and the hierarchy, as much as it continues alternately wringing it's collective hands and looking ever so concerned about the matter, is difficult to take all that seriously considering that they only started after the issue blew up in their faces, having either ignored it or covered it up for decades at least.
Regardless, are they not still blaming the sins of men on the Church. The Church did not and does not condone such behavior, but only sinful men within the Church?
I'm still angry about this and acknowledging that Protestants (or teachers, or scoutmasters, or coaches) have done it as well has not taken the edge off of my outrage in the least.
I agree with you. It's kind of like saying "well it's OK if you do it, but not us".
A few years ago, a member here had this gigantic list of non-Catholic pastors
who were convicted of abusing children. It took 2-3 posts to list all the
offenders. It opened my eyes, I was shocked.
__________________
'Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be Your Name,
Your kingdom come,
Your will be done
on earth as it is in heaven.
Give us today our daily bread.
Forgive us our debts,
as we also have forgiven our debtors.
And lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from the evil one'
Amen
In the Name of the Father, The Son, the Holy Spirit, Amen.
I'm saying that criticizing others when our own house is filthy is both childish and wrong.
Our church has a serious problem here. A largely sanctioned and protected group of men, in positions of authority over children were permitted to persist in their depredations in various locations in some cases over the course of a generation.
I really could not care less about a scout master in Wyoming and a baptist Sunday School teacher in Wisconsin. There has been nothing like the veritable epidemic of for the most part ephebophilic; i.e. gay abuse of youth in our church in certain dioceses and when we seek to deflect attention by mentioning what has happened elsewhere, we cheapen the suffering of those preyed upon by these animals and we show ourselves to be puerile and callous.
__________________
“To let understanding stop at what cannot be understood is a high attainment. Those who cannot do it will be destroyed on the lathe of heaven.“ - Chuang Tzu
I'm saying that criticizing others when our own house is filthy is both childish and wrong.
Our church has a serious problem here. A largely sanctioned and protected group of men, in positions of authority over children were permitted to persist in their depredations in various locations in some cases over the course of a generation.
I really could not care less about a scout master in Wyoming and a baptist Sunday School teacher in Wisconsin. There has been nothing like the veritable epidemic of for the most part ephebophilic; i.e. gay abuse of youth in our church in certain dioceses and when we seek to deflect attention by mentioning what has happened elsewhere, we cheapen the suffering of those preyed upon by these animals and we show ourselves to be puerile and callous.
No one is denying the dirt in our own house, but it's okay to acknowledge that our house is NOT the only one that has dirt in it. That is all this thread has done.
We are not saying our Church is not as bad or doesn't have as much sin as another... we are saying that our CHURCH is NOT the only one that has been hurt by these wolves in sheep's clothing, but it does feel and appear that the Catholic Church is the only Church for the most part that has been dragged in the dirt by the media for the horrendous sins of these wolves in sheep's clothing and that OTHER Churches also have wolves in sheep's clothing and have NOT been dragged in the mud by the media and other Churches. We are not in this alone. Somehow, it gives comfort to all of us to know that we are not alone in our struggles and hardships and burdens and sorrows...
And we are praying for all of the Churches (Catholic and Protestant) who have suffered with wolves aka criminals in sheep's clothing.
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Where Peter is, there is the Church. Where the Church is, there is eternal Life.
"The so-called right to abortion has pitted mothers against their children and women against men. It has sown violence and discord at the heart of the most intimate human relationships. It has aggravated the derogation of the father's role in an increasingly fatherless society"- Mother Theresa
"But I feel that the greatest destroyer of peace today is abortion, because it is a war against the child - a direct killing of the innocent child - murder by the mother herself. And if we accept that a mother can kill even her own child, how can we tell other people not to kill one another? How do we persuade a woman not to have an abortion?
As always, we must persuade her with love, and we remind ourselves that love means to be willing to give until it hurts. Jesus gave even his life to love us. So the mother who is thinking of abortion, should be helped to love - that is, to give until it hurts... her plans, or her free time, to respect the life of her child. The father of that child, whoever he is, must also give until it hurts. By abortion, the mother does not learn to love, but kills even her own child to solve her problems.
And by abortion, the father is told that he does not have to take any responsibility at all for the child he has brought into the world. That father is likely to put other women into the same trouble. So abortion just leads to more abortion. Any country that accepts abortion is not teaching the people to love, but to use any violence to get what they want. That is why the greatest destroyer of love and peace is abortion". - Mother Theresa
And we are praying for all of the Churches (Catholic and Protestant) who have suffered with wolves aka criminals in sheep's clothing.
D'Ann, I'm sorry, in most cases when we bring up other churches problems we aren't "praying for them", we're rubbing their noses in it and in this case we're also trying to minimize our own situation by magnifying theirs.
It should never be mentioned. We have no right or duty to even point it out.
And yes, this means that when they bring it up to castigate us, they're wrong as well, but, well, we're Christians, we take our lumps.
__________________
“To let understanding stop at what cannot be understood is a high attainment. Those who cannot do it will be destroyed on the lathe of heaven.“ - Chuang Tzu
Also the number of paedophile priests are a tiny percentage as are the number of paedophile Protestants (though even one priest/pastor abusing a child is one too many!) yet the way the antiCatholic Fundies talk nearly every priest is a paedophile. I just wish our enemies would get their own house in order before they attack us.
. On this issue I have found myself defending the Catholic Church often. It saddens me that people can be so ignorant as to blame the Church for the sins of a few men. The fact that they sincerely believe that the RCC Christian is not Christian often makes it impossible to have a reasonable discussion with them.
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