Right now I am terrified of death for fear of hell, but I just don't want God. If that's where my heart is, what can I do about it?
Faith is not a destination, AcherMan. It is a journey. If you are at the stage of your journey where you are afraid of death, but do not want God, then that is fine. As with any journey, you will progress from this point to another point, and that is fine too.
None of us has arrived; we are all on that same journey. Meanwhile, you might like to consider how healthy a human relationship predicated on fear and the avoidance of disproportionate punishment would be. The answer is, not very. Therefore it makes sense to prefer to have a relationship with a Creator which is predicated upon him allowing us to be who we are, rather than who we are not. In other words, it is not God you don't believe in, but the sadistic version of God promulgated by some churches, which has nothing to do with the God revealed in Christ.
Therefore, I am sure God has no problem with your doubts, and will wait for you until your journey brings you to another place.
Faith is not a destination, AcherMan. It is a journey. If you are at the stage of your journey where you are afraid of death, but do not want God, then that is fine. As with any journey, you will progress from this point to another point, and that is fine too.
None of us has arrived; we are all on that same journey. Meanwhile, you might like to consider how healthy a human relationship predicated on fear and the avoidance of disproportionate punishment would be. The answer is, not very. Therefore it makes sense to prefer to have a relationship with a Creator which is predicated upon him allowing us to be who we are, rather than who we are not. In other words, it is not God you don't believe in, but the sadistic version of God promulgated by some churches, which has nothing to do with the God revealed in Christ.
Therefore, I am sure God has no problem with your doubts, and will wait for you until your journey brings you to another place.
What she said!!
Google "Toxic Faith" There are several sites and a couple of books on it. It sounds like you got a pretty good dose of it. Good Luck.
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You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly.
Romans 5:6
While faith alone saves; saving faith is never alone.
A pair of hands at work powered by a billion hands clasped in prayer achieves much. Much more than just a pair of hands at work.
"The thing to remember about freedom is that it’s not given, it’s taken."
In my mind, restoration is just another aspect of salvation to consider. I'm not sure why you're stressing this or what you want me to do with it. Perhaps it should have some impact on me, but I've been exposed to theology so long that such things seem like trivial intellectual tidbits.
do you know what we are restored to?
It seems you agree that my life as a Christian was not one of deep-rooted conviction. So was it not more or less a sham? I obviously had no foundation and was just being tossed by the waves of life, struggling to stay afloat. You also seem to agree that I was lacking the help of the Holy Spirit. You say I should have yielded myself to God. The thing is, I tried this dozens, probably hundreds of times. But no matter how many times I told God and myself that I wanted to submit to him, my heart remained hard. I was only fooling myself by saying I wanted to submit to God. Does that make sense that I could try to submit to God, but deep down not want to?
absolutely makes sense, and my premise is that you could not/would not submit because you lacked an understanding or glimpse as it were of who God really is...You seem to have been chasing the God you thought He was, the God you were told He was, not the God that He is.
I found this the most frustrating part of my relationship with him. Even when I would realize that I needed God, I couldn't force my heart to want him. Apparently, I can't change my heart through willpower. That's why nothing felt genuine and why I've often seen myself as mysteriously incompatible with God. I hope this makes sense.
I know what you are saying, and yet, God says that every knee will bow, every tongue confess, it isn't about you being so different than everyone else, it's that you haven't yet seen a glimpse of God.
Consider Paul, He had a glimpse, and it changed his life...I also had a glimpse of God, a different glimpse, but a glimpse none the less. I think every committed, dedicated believer I know has had a glimpse of God, a glimpse that convinced them Hi is what they need.
You want me to seek God the way he is, not the way I think he is. But I don't know how I could erase the predispositions I have. Like I said, I am very reluctant to let God back in my life. I can't see myself approaching him and I can only see him reaching me if he's sneaky enough to get past my defenses.
So take a season to not reach...take a season to explore and study and find out who He is.
I'm not sure what else to say at this point. It's apparent that my heart doesn't want change because it is wounded, confused, and distrusting of all solutions.
Join the club...our current church body is mostly full of people who have been hurt by the church....it's a common problem, one that God is able to overcome....even our family has been horribly hurt, but we still love God, and the glimpse we had of God was enough to compel us still. Which is why I suggest you need a glimpse....
You say I need a glimpse of God, the real God, not the one I had been following. I have a couple thoughts about this. First, I'm not sure I can openly seek God because the bitterness from the God I new before and all of my experiences with him is so heavily embedded in me. I am wounded and afraid of exposing myself to such a relationship again. I don't see how I could completely flush my mind of its fears and seek him.
Although my heart flares in anger at the thought, I know I probably need God and that I need a different relationship than I had with him before. I just don't think I can bring myself to seek him, nor would I have any idea where to start. What if all I find is the same God who caused me pain or a similar God?
What if all I find is the same God who caused me pain or a similar God?
Think of someone you love, TAM. You and I are imperfect, and sometimes we hurt those we love, inadvertantly. This is part of being human, and it happens.
God is not like that. If the version of God you find causes you pain, then it is not yet close enough to the Living God, but made in the image of man. I would start with the Beatitudes; find out from them what Christ says of each one of us, and take his example as the starting point for understanding who God is to us.
If you keep very clearly on Christ; what he says and does, how he behaves to those around him, then I do not think you will go far wrong. But in the meantime, don't forget to live your life. I think at your age it is important to learn about the world, and about your brothers and sisters, and not just about God.
You say I need a glimpse of God, the real God, not the one I had been following. I have a couple thoughts about this. First, I'm not sure I can openly seek God because the bitterness from the God I new before and all of my experiences with him is so heavily embedded in me. I am wounded and afraid of exposing myself to such a relationship again. I don't see how I could completely flush my mind of its fears and seek him.
may I be painfully honest with you? I know this feeling well, especially in relationship to the Father God so many preach...much less the Jesus (brother) God....you see, from my perspective Father's and brothers are both very dangerous people and should if approached at all, be approached with great caution, always protecting self. Maybe this is why I understand what you are saying, but I will also say this, learning who someone is, doesn't mean you have to open yourself up to more pain. Consider this, just because you have a glimpse of God, doesn't mean you have to open yourself up to that God until you are ready. But to not seek out who He really is, is like hating ice cream without ever knowing what it tastes like. You can't blame on God what is not HIs..., only what is His....you can't know what is His until you find out who He is.
Although my heart flares in anger at the thought, I know I probably need God and that I need a different relationship than I had with him before. I just don't think I can bring myself to seek him, nor would I have any idea where to start. What if all I find is the same God who caused me pain or a similar God?
And what if you don't? What if you find the God who surpasses your wildest imaginations? There are two sides to every issue, you are only seeing one side....as I said, I am very familiar with this concept....but there is another side, and the other side is what if the God of the bible is the very God you were seeking all this time. The very God that will heal your wounds and give you all you could need or want to get though the hard times yet to come? Would you pass up on an opportunity to know that God just because you might not find Him?
The problem with passing up on love, is that we also pass up on the healing and warmth and wonders of being alive.
Those are things I thought I was promised before, but I only found pain instead when I sought God. Doesn't it make sense that I'd be afraid to open myself up again?
Those are things I thought I was promised before, but I only found pain instead when I sought God. Doesn't it make sense that I'd be afraid to open myself up again?
Of course. This has to be in your own time, and in your own way. And for now, as I said, it is time to experience other things, and find out who you are.
When you are ready, you will find God right beside you. And then you will realise that he was there all along.
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