I am thinking those who vigorously defend the current insurance oriented health care system work for insurance companies, or more simply are conservative ideologues.
The current VA and Medicare systems are good examples of how a government run health system could work.
Okay. My mistake. I was reading Sweden's line as the US's.
But while you've won your point [good job!] (that Canada's infant mortality was not worse than the US's before the introduction of [Canadian] medicare), the chart undercuts your overall argument since it shows that a country with an even longer history of "socialized medicine" has a much better outcome with regard to infant mortality.
People keep arguing "you don't need it, so it is elastic". I suppose they're right...you can go off and die in a ditch or something. You don't *need* that open heart surgery. You don't *need* that cancer treatment. You could very well accept your place as a loser - die a painful death - and use your suffering as an example for your children.
That's the American way, ain't it?
I have actually seen people on this and other Christian-themed forums who claim to be severely ill, are unable to obtain medical care for financial reasons, yet who STILL oppose any kind of national health care. They have stated their willingness to die rather than take any kind of public assistance to obtain a doctor.
Hey, I'm sure Bill Gates, George Soros and Donald Trump would return the favor and die for them, right?
I have actually seen people on this and other Christian-themed forums who claim to be severely ill, are unable to obtain medical care for financial reasons, yet who STILL oppose any kind of national health care. They have stated their willingness to die rather than take any kind of public assistance to obtain a doctor.
The way people seem to have accepted that the ability to see a doctor when you're sick is some sort of holy grail - or that the medical industry ought to be used as some sort of punitive system against the "losers" in society - is amazing to me.
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Avoid the base hypocrisy of condemning in one man what you pass over in silence when committed by another.
– Theodore Roosevelt
Before you criticize a man, walk a mile in his shoes. That way...he's a mile away and barefoot.
- Anonymous
Devinsky asked the president pointedly if he would be willing to promise that he wouldn’t seek such extraordinary help for his wife or daughters if they became sick and the public plan he’s proposing limited the tests or treatment they can get.
The president refused to make such a pledge, though he allowed that if “it’s my family member, if it’s my wife, if it’s my children, if it’s my grandmother, I always want them to get the very best care.["]
What a ringing endorsement for a health care plan that people's lives will depend on.
__________________ But there is no constitutional right to be protected by the state against being murdered by criminals or madmen.
-Bowers v. DeVito
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"Even as it stands, the Home Guard could only exist in a country where men feel themselves free. The totalitarian states can do great things, but there is one thing they cannot do: they cannot give the factory-worker a rifle and tell him to take it home and keep it in his bedroom. That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there."
-George Orwell
"Remember that a government big enough to give you everything you want is also big enough to take away everything you have."
-Barry Goldwater
"Police, at all times, should maintain a relationship with the public that gives reality to the historic tradition that the police are the public and the public are the police; the police being only members of the public who are paid to give full-time attention to duties which are incumbent upon every citizen in the interests of community welfare and existence."
-Sir Robert Peel
Okay. My mistake. I was reading Sweden's line as the US's.
But while you've won your point [good job!] (that Canada's infant mortality was not worse than the US's before the introduction of [Canadian] medicare), the chart undercuts your overall argument since it shows that a country with an even longer history of "socialized medicine" has a much better outcome with regard to infant mortality.
I never realized that I was making an "overall argument". However, since you bring it up, please point out where the chart shows "that a country with an even longer history of 'socialized medicine' has a much better outcome with regard to infant mortality". That is, show me where socialized medicine has resulted in a notable improvement in a nation's infant mortality as compared to the improvement in the US over the same time period.
__________________ Ecclesiastes 10:2The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left.
What a ringing endorsement for a health care plan that people's lives will depend on.
I don't understand the point you're making.
Are you arguing that unless it's absolutely perfect (without knowing the details of it beforehand) - that it cannot be preferable to the system we have now and therefore should not be done?
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Avoid the base hypocrisy of condemning in one man what you pass over in silence when committed by another.
– Theodore Roosevelt
Before you criticize a man, walk a mile in his shoes. That way...he's a mile away and barefoot.
- Anonymous
However, since you bring it up, please point out where the chart shows "that a country with an even longer history of 'socialized medicine' has a much better outcome with regard to infant mortality". That is, show me where socialized medicine has resulted in a notable improvement in a nation's infant mortality as compared to the improvement in the US over the same time period. 
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