Why Are People on this Forum so Venomous?

I haven't read all of this thread, but i would like to add my opinion. first off, as stated in my intro thread i came here to get away from the godless forums i was apart of. heres the thing, people no matter what religion, interests, or what have you, all have differences of opinion. the best solution i think that will eliminate heated discussions over whatever the topic is would be to get off the forums all together and surround yourself with like minded people who share the same belief system and faith as you. i'm done with forums. i tried this one out and ive noticed what the op is talking about. nothing directed at me, but just all the bashing. it makes no sense. they even divide up this forum into specific faith groups and it is just amazing how people think they know everything about every subject. i profess not to know anything, cause i don't. im trying to serve God the best way i can. all the misguided info, the bashing, the looking down the nose comments etc, is what drives people away from church and forums in the first place. im in a good place right now in my walk with God. I pray that people reading this will realize that spending countless hours here, debating and causing strife is not prosperous at all and is warned about in the bible. anyway, like i said, im done with forums. i'd rather be at church worshipping anyway. this was not directed at anyone in specific, and im sure ill be bashed as a newb who doesn't know anything about the forum etc...as has been said on many other forums. whatever. does not effect me cause im not going to be a self serving, ethug. i choose Jesus, and hope that you guys' eyes are opened to what is going on in here. the enemy is dividing up the church through godless talk/writing/etc.

well, hope my words in other threads have blessed others. ill stick around for a bit to see what kind of response this gets but im sure that some grammar nazi will tell me to punctuate or capitalize, or a self proclaimed doctorate in theology will say something ridiculously idiotic to try to anger me. thats ok, God still loves you, and so do i.
bless you all.

No it is based on grace because we cannot love others as God loves us. Ever heard that from me before?

They forgive us because they love us. They adopt us as a child of God because we respond to their love with love.

Where does the Bible say Jesus is our salvation?

I haven't read all of this thread, but i would like to add my opinion. first off, as stated in my intro thread i came here to get away from the godless forums i was apart of. heres the thing, people no matter what religion, interests, or what have you, all have differences of opinion. the best solution i think that will eliminate heated discussions over whatever the topic is would be to get off the forums all together and surround yourself with like minded people who share the same belief system and faith as you. i'm done with forums. i tried this one out and ive noticed what the op is talking about. nothing directed at me, but just all the bashing. it makes no sense. they even divide up this forum into specific faith groups and it is just amazing how people think they know everything about every subject. i profess not to know anything, cause i don't. im trying to serve God the best way i can. all the misguided info, the bashing, the looking down the nose comments etc, is what drives people away from church and forums in the first place. im in a good place right now in my walk with God. I pray that people reading this will realize that spending countless hours here, debating and causing strife is not prosperous at all and is warned about in the bible. anyway, like i said, im done with forums. i'd rather be at church worshipping anyway. this was not directed at anyone in specific, and im sure ill be bashed as a newb who doesn't know anything about the forum etc...as has been said on many other forums. whatever. does not effect me cause im not going to be a self serving, ethug. i choose Jesus, and hope that you guys' eyes are opened to what is going on in here. the enemy is dividing up the church through godless talk/writing/etc.

well, hope my words in other threads have blessed others. ill stick around for a bit to see what kind of response this gets but im sure that some grammar nazi will tell me to punctuate or capitalize, or a self proclaimed doctorate in theology will say something ridiculously idiotic to try to anger me. thats ok, God still loves you, and so do i.
bless you all.

Originally Posted by elman
No it is based on grace because we cannot love others as God loves us. Ever heard that from me before?

what I have heard you say and asked you to clarify is two things here, one what is grace, you say grace is acts of compassion but when asked what acts of compassion God gives us that man cannot give, you fall short to say the least...and if our salvation is based on grace, then why must we love others in order to be saved? It doesn't work unless our salvation is through works, which the bible tells us it is not...so yes, I have heard you say that, but it doesn't follow when we add it to the rest of the things you claim to believe.

They forgive us because they love us. They adopt us as a child of God because we respond to their love with love.

so then your theology is one of works based understanding? We are loved because we love....? It is a conditional love you speak of, where in if we act with compassion toward God (that is to others) then God will act with compassion toward us? Right... I would so hate to be loved by anyone that way, to only be loved if I can love them enough..... how many acts of compassion are necessary for me to earn God's love?

Where does the Bible say Jesus is our salvation?
from Gen. through Rev. Let's pick a few NT for you John 3:16-18 John 15:6 2 Timothy 2:12 Hebrews 6:4-6, 2 Peter 2:20-21. John 5:24, John 6:28-29, John 6:47, John 9:35, John 11:25-26, John 12:36, John 20:31, Galatians 2:16, Galatians 2:20, Galatians 3:26 John 1:29-30 1 Timothy 4:10

That should get you started...

I am tired of repeating myself.

I am not the judge and neither are you.

Scripture says we have no hope if we do not obey Christ.

That seems clear to me. It says we accept Christ by obeying Him.

That seems clear to me. I don't know why it is not clear to you.

1Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a member of the Jewish ruling council. 2He came to Jesus at night and said, "Rabbi, we know you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the miraculous signs you are doing if God were not with him."
3In reply Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.[a]"

4"How can a man be born when he is old?" Nicodemus asked. "Surely he cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb to be born!"

5Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. 6Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit[b] gives birth to spirit. 7You should not be surprised at my saying, 'You[c] must be born again.' 8The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit."

9"How can this be?" Nicodemus asked.

10"You are Israel's teacher," said Jesus, "and do you not understand these things? 11I tell you the truth, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony. 12I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things? 13No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.[d] 14Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life.[e]

16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,[f] that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.[g] 19This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God."[h]

The words: "Jesus is my salvation" is not there.

I will not waste my time looking at the other verses you gave. This passage does say something I have been telling you however: :21But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done"

Notice the words about what the one who lives by the truth has done? What do you think the one who has lived by the truth has done given that Jesus commanded that we love others?

Scripture says we have no hope if we do not obey Christ.

that is because as some of the passages I posted for you say, that if we do not obey, we don't really believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Messiah, our salvation....

That seems clear to me. It says we accept Christ by obeying Him.

see, here is the problem, you have it backwards, we don't accept Christ by obeying, we obey because we accept Christ...

That seems clear to me. I don't know why it is not clear to you

.
because it is your intellect, and not the bibles command...

?????That is what I have been telling you, when we love God, with we are saved by our belief in Jesus the Messiah, Jesus the Christ, we obey out of our Love for HIm, not the other way around....

Notice the words about what the one who lives by the truth has done? What do you think the one who has lived by the truth has done given that Jesus commanded that we love others?

I have no idea what you don't understand. Our acts of compassion do not lead us into a love relationship with God,

but rather our Love relationship for God leads us to obey, which includes but is not limited to acts of compassion....what don't you understand about that?

Whatever the because, the statment I made is true.

Yes that is the problem. We do not accept Christ unless we obey, so acceptance of Christ comes with obediance and not without it.
No it is exactly what the Bible says.

1Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a member of the Jewish ruling council. 2He came to Jesus at night and said, "Rabbi, we know you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the miraculous signs you are doing if God were not with him."
3In reply Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.[a]"

first let me say, bravo for bringing into the discussion more than just your two favorite passages, bravo! second, amen, we must be born again to see the kingdom of heaven, to be saved from death into eternal life, which is what I have been telling you all this time....as have the scriptures...

4"How can a man be born when he is old?" Nicodemus asked. "Surely he cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb to be born!"

5Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. 6Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit[b] gives birth to spirit. 7You should not be surprised at my saying, 'You[c] must be born again.' 8The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit."

Again, amen, exactly what I and scripture have been telling you, the salvation you are seeking with love, is only possible through the HS, not ourselves as you have been proclaiming.

9"How can this be?" Nicodemus asked.

10"You are Israel's teacher," said Jesus, "and do you not understand these things? 11I tell you the truth, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony. 12I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things? 13No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.[d] 14Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life.[e]
again, amen, our salvation is in Jesus the Christ...see vs. 14 and 15, that is exactly what it says and exactly what I have been telling you

16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,[f] that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.[g] 19This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God."[h]
amen, Jesus is our salvation, when we believe on Him, we being saved.

The words: "Jesus is my salvation" is not there.
so now, only exact words are acceptable???? Wow!!!! Not even sure how to respond to that, no wonder you refuse to clarify and explain what you mean.

I will not waste my time looking at the other verses you gave. This passage does say something I have been telling you however: :21But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done"

You claimed to be giving me passages that said Christ is our salvation. The words are not there although I have agreed with this concept many times with you.

So you say but that is not what scripture say. Jesus says if you love others you have loved me, so it is you that continues to not understand.

Because it is not correct. Acts of compassion sum up the law of God and Jesus teaches very clearly that acts of compassion lead us to a relationship with God who is love.

Yes after we have a relationship with God we are continually led to act with compassion for others but that is love and not just mere acts of compassion as you call it

--contrary to the way the scriptures treat it.

No disagreement.

Paul said not all speak in tounges. Was Paul mistaken?
Duh!

1 cor 12:29Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? 30Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues[d]? Do all interpret? 31But eagerly desire[e] the greater gifts.

Yes that is the problem. We do not accept Christ unless we obey, so acceptance of Christ comes with obediance and not without it.
No it is exactly what the Bible says.
The real problem is that it is an important difference because one exercises an understanding of grace, the other works...we don't work for our love from God, we live in it and that love that we live in is why love for others is necessary, because it is the evidence of the love we have for God.

Some time ago, you said that we are saved by obeying God,

just as in the verses just prior to the good Samaritan story, at that time, you used the singular for command. I asked you, which of the two commandments before the story of the good Samaritan we were to obey, you did not reply. There are two commandments,

they are given in order of importance. The first is to love the Lord our God with all that we are...as you have been shown in additional passages, this is the key command because it is that very love, a love that consumes us, that allows us to obey the second commandment.

You keep insisting on putting the second commandment before the first. It simply doesn't work that way....when we love, we behave a certain way, we don't behave a certain way so that we can love. I changed my children when they were babies because I loved them, I didn't change them hoping that someday that would lead me to love them....don't but the cart before the horse, you know enough scripture you just aren't accepting what it says...

we love others because we love God with all our being, not the other way around...

The difference takes us right back to another of your favorite passages, that of the sheep and the goats. Not everyone who claims Christ belongs to Christ, is intimate with Christ. Which again, confirms the totality of scripture which says that love is the evidence of the believer, the evidence of the work of the HS within a life. IT's all about what God tells us through the scriptures and His message is clear, we can't work our way to heaven, and that includes acts of compassion, what we can do is evidence to the world a living God by living in Him and the acts of compassion and more that show His power and might....

1Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a member of the Jewish ruling council. 2He came to Jesus at night and said, "Rabbi, we know you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the miraculous signs you are doing if God were not with him."
3In reply Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.[a]"

first let me say, bravo for bringing into the discussion more than just your two favorite passages, bravo! second, amen, we must be born again to see the kingdom of heaven, to be saved from death into eternal life, which is what I have been telling you all this time....as have the scriptures...

4"How can a man be born when he is old?" Nicodemus asked. "Surely he cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb to be born!"

5Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. 6Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit[b] gives birth to spirit. 7You should not be surprised at my saying, 'You[c] must be born again.' 8The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit."

Again, amen, exactly what I and scripture have been telling you, the salvation you are seeking with love, is only possible through the HS, not ourselves as you have been proclaiming.

9"How can this be?" Nicodemus asked.

10"You are Israel's teacher," said Jesus, "and do you not understand these things? 11I tell you the truth, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony. 12I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things? 13No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.[d] 14Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life.[e]
again, amen, our salvation is in Jesus the Christ...see vs. 14 and 15, that is exactly what it says and exactly what I have been telling you

16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,[f] that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.[g] 19This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God."[h]

amen, Jesus is our salvation, when we believe on Him, we being saved.

The words: "Jesus is my salvation" is not there.

so now, only exact words are acceptable????

Wow!!!! Not even sure how to respond to that, no wonder you refuse to clarify and explain what you mean.

I will not waste my time looking at the other verses you gave. This passage does say something I have been telling you however: :21But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done"

You claimed to be giving me passages that said Christ is our salvation. The words are not there although I have agreed with this concept many times with you.

Well first notice that in the passage you think confirms what you are saying it says that we must live in the truth of the light, this is in direct contrast to your posts that say we do not have to believe to love (acts of compassion)

secondly, you have never said that Jesus is our salvation, why is that? You have never said that Jesus is the Christ, why is that? You have never said that Jesus is the Messiah, why is that? If you agree, why won't you say it? When I push you, you ask for scriptures that tell us our salvation is through Jesus....if you agree why ask for the scriptures to defend the point?

Is Jesus the Christ? IS Jesus the Messiah? Is Jesus our salvation?

So you say but that is not what scripture say. Jesus says if you love others you have loved me, so it is you that continues to not understand.

Humm???? so when scripture says that we are to Love God and if we do we will obey Him, it isn't scripture saying it, but me? When scripture says that love for others flows from our Love for God, it isn't scripture that says it but me? Etc. etc. etc. You put to much value on my words if you think that what I say is the same as scripture...now yes, I am aware that that is not what you intended, but Elman, the scripture is very plain on this, it has been shown to you, and when you are stuck, you 1. claim it isn't there, 2. refuse to read the scriptures and/or 3. dismiss the passage as not one you agree with therefore not relavent....none of these responses are honest, truthful, or fair debate of scripture....

Because it is not correct. Acts of compassion sum up the law of God and Jesus teaches very clearly that acts of compassion lead us to a relationship with God who is love.
Jesus teaching is very clear that from our Love for God flows love for others, which includes but is not limited to acts of compassion....
Yes after we have a relationship with God we are continually led to act with compassion for others but that is love and not just mere acts of compassion as you call it

so now you finally admit that love and acts of compassion are not the same thing? Bravo if I read that right, we really are making progress.

--contrary to the way the scriptures treat it.
so how is this contrary to scripture, you have been provided a host of passages that all say the same thing, 1. Jesus is our salvation 2. The first command is to Love God 3. From our loving God flows our love for others 4. our love for others includes but is not limited to acts of compassion....that is what scripture teaches and what I am telling you and showing you in scripture...these, Elman, are the basics of Jesus teaching in scripture, these are the very basics...which is why it is so important for you to understand.

We reach the same bottom line. No love for other equals not a child of God.

NOPE DID NOT SAY THAT.

You must obey both commands and if you obey the command to love others you have obeyed the command to love God because when you love others you are loving God.

You are the one not accepting what the scriptures says when it says we love God if we love others.

Both must be obeyed or neither is obeyed.

And the acts of compassion show we are followers of Jesus.

And that is what I have been telling you, as have the scriptures.

The HS is with all who love because God is love.--Just what I have been telling you.

And exactly what I have been telling you. You must believe in Jesus in obediance to His command to love or you are not a believer in Jesus.

Amen we must obey the command to love to be saved.

Not to me they are not but to you only the exact words will do.

I have been saying Jesus is my salvation in many ways said in scripture but not using the exact words and you wanted me to use the exact words.

Never refused.
What are you talking about? Do you even know what you are saying here?

Why do you say things that are untrue? I have said it many many times in many ways.



I give up.

Why do you say mere when you refer to acts of compassion? Jesus did not say mere. You are adding to scripture.

Not accepting scripture as written.
NOPE ADMITTED NOTHING OF THE KIND. YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH COMPREHENING WHAT YOU READ.
I understand the scriptures do not teach acts of compassion are mere and not love.