Why Are People on this Forum so Venomous?

Yep and Muslims are also capable of doing that. There was a story coming out of Iraq of a Muslim who reisked his life and the life of his family to tell the Americans where a female soldier was being kept and mistreated which allowed the Americans to rescure her. Was that not showing love for your enemy by the Irag Muslim?

What a brilliant argument you have presented. Are you so wrong about anything?

here's where my patience begins to be obvious...Elman I will repeat what I have said many times now, what you seem to think that ignoring will make it go away, but it won't...love, biblical love is not merely acts of compassion, it is much much more...so if you ask me how will observing an act of compassion distiguish a believer from a non believer, I would have to say it will not...but if you ask me how observing two people loving will distinguish the believer from the non believer, the answer is simple but can be long...short version, because the believer loves through the power, grace, trust, etc. of the HS within, whereas the non believer loves with only who he is, his own power... if I really need to offer you a longer answer, I'd be happy to. BECAUSE LOVE ISN'T JUST ACTS OF COMPASSION....BIBLICAL LOVE CANNOT BE CONTAINED IN SIMPLE ACTS OF COMPASSION, EMOTIONS, OR BEHAVIORS, BIBLICAL LOVE TRANSCENDS ALL OF THAT. now we are getting into some good stuff, stuff that will take a book to explain, in fact, my husband and I are working on this book now....Start by going to I Cor. 13...biblical love is patient, kind, etc. These markers are extreme and examples of which are demonstrated by the Lord Jesus Christ...the evidence of the real love, the biblical love is that it changes situations and transforms lives. In other words, it affects us in ways that other love cannot. It, like God, is a living God, a living Love, not a dead one. This difference is both in how it looks and how it changes us. the bible tells us all things are possible, it also tells us that no man can follow the law, so we can get into a symantics debate of that question, or we can view it for it's merit...Biblical love comes from God, so no, the non believer is not capable of that love, however, a moment in which God consumes an individual and that individual behaves accordingly is possible...so instead of asking ever, as yourself what is the norm, what usually happens, is that kind of love a love the world knows? How many people, believers or not have you ever heard of that can forgive an enemy? One who abused? One who murdered a loved one? Is this something the world knows? Is this something that you are able to do without the HS within? well, first off see above, and let me know how close to understanding you are. Love has several markers that distinguish it from world love, one is what is listen in I Cor. 13, but don't think of it as the kind of patience for example like waiting for popcorn to pop, it's quietly waiting on steroids so to speak...Let's see, another example...we once attended a church in which the members were very "kind"...Love is kind...but when it was all said and done, thier kindness was surface only, the motive was self, not others...when we look at I Cor. 13 we see that love does not think of it's own...

Let's compare that to what you have said of love...if love, or acts of compassion are necessary to get us into heaven, then our acts of compassion are not love because they are self motivated, for our own good. Biblical love is Christ motivated, we are compelled by the Christ within to love, it is not because we gain anything, but rather because we are in Christ that the love flows, therefore, love is not just an act of kindness, but it is a kindness that is not motivated by self....real love, biblical love is the marker of a life lived in the power and might of the living God, not in the power and might of the self and it's evil desires.

The other marker for real love is how it changes us, what it does within us. Just as Christ's demonstation of love on the cross is not in vain, our acts of love are not in vain, they love us, change us from within....a man (human) cannot be truly loved by another without it affecting them from within....let me see, another example...When someone actually loves you without condition, without self motivation, you can't help but see yourself differently...it is a love not because of what you have done, but rather because you are. that kind of love gives a life worth. So real love transforms us into people of worth... who was the Samaritan, the enemy, or the friend? The question asked, was "who is my neighbor?" "If I am to love my neighbor, who is that neighbor I am to love?" The answer given was that the neighbor was the man's enemy...the one he hated above all else. So did Christ say showed Love? It was the enemy...not above when I showed you that real love transforms us, doesn't think of self, moves us, gives us worth? The man who was loving his enemy, was not doing so out of self gain, his kindness was extreme...the man's love, was not simply an act of compassion, it was beyond, it was an unselfish act of one for his enemy....doesn't matter if the audience was Jewish or not, the answer was still the same, the answer was that love was both extreme, and very different from the worlds love and extended to the enemy, not just the friends. That message simply does not change.... well, let's start with the first question....were there prophets before Jesus? Any time in history when God worked in man, to transform man, to bring about what man could not appart from God, love could prevail. Love comes from God, and God is love, in the NT church, God comes to us in the form of the HS, which is why we talk about the HS, we live in the NT... but does that mean that God did not work in man before Christ....? Of course not.

Now to the second question...you are back to acts of compassion being love...where love is compassionate, it is so much more. Anyone can act with compassion but not just anyone can love with an eternal, unconditional, unselfish, transformational love.... Elman, your basal problem is that you don't really understand what love is, but that is old news, let's look at Matt. 25 This is your scripture for what love is...let's look and see what it says love is....31"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. 32All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. 34"Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'


What are these, look beyond the compassion, what is there? First the topic of food, if we look at scripture, we see that God does not need us to feed the poor, Psalm 78:24-25 and
Proverbs 23:6-8 (New International Version)


6 Do not eat the food of a stingy man,
do not crave his delicacies;
7 for he is the kind of man
who is always thinking about the cost. [a]
"Eat and drink," he says to you,
but his heart is not with you.
8 You will vomit up the little you have eaten
and will have wasted your compliments.



and

Proverbs 25:20-22 (New International Version)


20 Like one who takes away a garment on a cold day,
or like vinegar poured on soda,
is one who sings songs to a heavy heart.
21 If your enemy is hungry, give him food to eat;
if he is thirsty, give him water to drink.
22 In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head,
and the LORD will reward you.


and we're just getting started, you see, even feeding the hungry is about extreme acts, not just taking some extra you have laying around and giving it to some poor shmuck...thirsty...Psalms 107:9 and

Proverbs 25:20-22 (New International Version)


20 Like one who takes away a garment on a cold day,
or like vinegar poured on soda,
is one who sings songs to a heavy heart.
21 If your enemy is hungry, give him food to eat;
if he is thirsty, give him water to drink.
22 In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head,
and the LORD will reward you.


Isaiah 65:12-14 (New International Version)


12 I will destine you for the sword,
and you will all bend down for the slaughter;
for I called but you did not answer,
I spoke but you did not listen.
You did evil in my sight
and chose what displeases me."
13 Therefore this is what the Sovereign LORD says:
"My servants will eat,
but you will go hungry;
my servants will drink,
but you will go thirsty;
my servants will rejoice,
but you will be put to shame.



John 6:34-36 (New International Version)


34"Sir," they said, "from now on give us this bread."
35Then Jesus declared, "I am the bread of life. He who comes to me will never go hungry, and he who believes in me will never be thirsty. 36But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe.


Romans 12:19-21 (New International Version)

19Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: "It is mine to avenge; I will repay,"[a]says the Lord. 20On the contrary:
"If your enemy is hungry, feed him;
if he is thirsty, give him something to drink.
In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head."[b] 21Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.


Stranger~

Hebrews 11:13

All these people were still living by faith when they died. They did not receive the things promised; they only saw them and welcomed them from a distance. And they admitted that they were aliens and strangers on earth.

Hebrews 11:13

All these people were still living by faith when they died. They did not receive the things promised; they only saw them and welcomed them from a distance. And they admitted that they were aliens and strangers on earth.

1 Peter 2:11

Dear friends, I urge you, as aliens and strangers in the world, to abstain from sinful desires, which war against your soul.


Naked~2 Corinthians 5:2-4 (New International Version)

2Meanwhile we groan, longing to be clothed with our heavenly dwelling, 3because when we are clothed, we will not be found naked. 4For while we are in this tent, we groan and are burdened, because we do not wish to be unclothed but to be clothed with our heavenly dwelling, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life.


Revelation 3:17

You say, 'I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.' But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked.

Luke 6:29 (New International Version)

29If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also. If someone takes your cloak, do not stop him from taking your tunic.


Point is this, according to scripture, none of these things are as simple as an act of compassion, they are deeper, more moving, more Godly....you have to see it for what the scripture says it is...



37"Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'
40"The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'



Let's take a second to look at this word least Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon basically, the concept is about putting others ahead of ourself, thinking of them as greater than ourselves, humm, we're right back to I Cor. 13...

You wear me down. Just tell me how I can observe agape love and don't quote the scriptures above again because none of them--repeat none of them prove that agape love is not just showing compassion for others in need. Tell me how I can observe a person helping others and know which is Christian and which is not. Telling me they must conform with 1 Cor 13---that is a chapter about love that includes compassion and places others above self. It applies to all human beings.

Rom 14- the Kingdom of God is not about eating and drinking--or smoking etc. I don't believe some people are born compassionate. I don't believe in original sin and I beleive we are all born innocent, but I also believe we are all born with survival instincts and selfish. We must learn to be compassionate. I agree it is, or seems to be, eaiser for some people than for others, but we all have our gifts and our weaknesses and they are not the same between two different people. I agree that turning to God and obeying the command to love makes it eaiser to continue to love others and we have the encouragment of God to continue, but continuing to love is still a choice and we still have the ability to chose to sin. None of us are free from this ability to sin and from the propensity to sin.

We live in a fallen creation. If we did not grow up with born-again, non-compromising parents, we may have been brought up in some way to go, but not in the fear of the Lord. Rather, I was brought up in the fear of man. I was born into sin. I was selfish from birth. I do believe that I became accountable at about the age of 12. I heard the gospel somewhat and knew something was special about Jesus Christ, but I rejected it because of hypocrasy. I thought it was stupid, and not because the message of the cross is that, just that religion is so boring and I could not understand it. My religion was what Ken wanted to do at the time. Now, it is what Ken wants to do for the Lord Jesus Christ, to be obedient and keep His commandments, so that I may keep this anointing and keep on fire. If I am not on fire for Jesus Christ, then I am not living. I would not trade this life for anything else. I want to always lift up His name.

Try to focus. 35"By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another." is not the same words or meaning as "love is not love without Christ".

Sure. But I'm not wrong about Jesus death being sufficient for me to be forgiven and spend eternity in heaven. For all your many words, you haven't proven anything except your tenacious grasp on your opinions.

Worldly love is not agape type love. Love is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Spirit. Unless you receive a baptism of God's love, you cannot know it. Elman, if you ask the Lord to show that He loves you, He will do it. He has done it for me, and He is no respector of persons. He will do it for you also. When God blesses you, it may come from the most unlikely source. For example, my dad, who is not a believer has been a vessel to bless me, though my dad does not even know what is truly going on.