What would you guys recommend (assuming you agree there is a problem)? Do you think this site has adequate measures to maintain civility and Spriritual purity in our discourses? What method do you think is most scripturally sound in rebuking or corrected people who act as I've described?
I have taken a different approach.. look at this as an opportunity to learn how strong, which verses, and what justification are used in holding said position.... then when you study with the Lord and scripture... as Him to help you be His instrument. ... our world is not perfect, nor will this forum be... but it can be a wonderful place to really learn where other people's heads are truly at. .. the diversity is astounding.. without you ever leaving the comfort of your spot before the computer.
I give God the glory for the opportunity. I realise that you are see the ugly side of this freedom aloud on the forum.. but I believe it needs a place.. and since this site works hard to keep it well monitored towards civility.. with our own learning of tolerance, long suffering, and patience, we can spiritually be blessed by God.. even in these situations.
__________________ Since the Torah is a finite book expressing the will of an infinite God, many lessons must be derivable from each passage from all the infinite angles.
In my honest opinion I believe the enemy uses "so-called believers" to insult other "non-believers" in order to become a stumbling block. I often hear that Christians are hateful, rude, insensitive...etc.
The fact is most people who claim to be christian are not.
Which is why at the end of this age The Good Lord Jesus Christ will reject those nominal "Christians."
If they will know us by our love then we must present love.
Know us by our love? Those one who that was written about were under teachings that were always correct.
Love can be feigned and faked. Happens all the time in life. Such love does not have to have its source in the Spirit. Peter professed undying love to Christ, and Jesus called him "Satan."
Satan would love to set up this legalism of we must 'love everyone' as how one should act under all circumstances, so that those confronting false teachings would be appear to congenially accepting of the one promoting such teachings. Its a politically correct gimmick to have the one standing for truth be the one to place sheep's clothing over the wolf. Satan must have a chuckle as Christians who live in a naive bubble are more than obliging and are willing to become pretentious in the name of love.
Romans 12:9
"Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil;
cling to what is good."
That is the other side of love. We are not here to socialize unless you want to go into a chat area, or discuss a common interest such as a hobby, or music. If someone is teaching false doctrine? If its perceived as being false? How can we all be miss congeniality when confronting an attitude that has an affinity for what is false?
Debate is designed to be heated. If one wishes to demand a facade to be maintained at all times, then that produces a false person behind the debate. If someone is truly hateful as a person? It will be revealed, and the person will be dealt with according to forum rules.
This is how false beliefs are to be approached in debate...
2 Corinthians 10:3-5
"For though we live in the world, we do not wage war
as the world does. The weapons we fight with are not
the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have
divine power to demolish strongholds.
We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought
to make it obedient to Christ."
That is what a well designed debate forum must allow for if truth is to be defended in the Spirit. Truth must be fought for, and won by the hearers listening in. Also, it allows for oneself to be corrected with our own errors, and in gratitude, come away the wiser with a few wounds healing in the process.
That is how it must be if one truly seeks truth. One must accept rebuke and reproval when you are in error, and be willing to fight for the truth when you are correct in what you have come to believe after careful evaluation and study.
Proverbs 27:6
"Wounds from a friend can be trusted,
but an enemy multiplies kisses."
Proverbs 27:6 should be the motto of every well thought out debate forum. If you want to socialize and have everyone get along in peaceful tranquility? That's not what debate is for. Its one fencer dueling with another looking for weakness and error.. It not to thrust him through to the death when his weakness is exposed. But, to expose weakness so that he may hopefully accept correction and become strong in the truth he was missing. For here we might fight fiercely at times. But its not to destroy the other. But to show the other where he needs to be made strong in Christ. After all. He is the Word. (John 1:1) That is love, too.
Proverbs 27:17
" As iron sharpens iron,
so one man sharpens another."
To make sure everyone is congenial and pleasant all the time? That will cause everyone to become like artificial plastic striking against plastic. Nothing gets sharpened. We will become dulled and limp. Iron must strike iron in order for the softer iron to become sharpened. Sharpened like a two edged sword of God's Word.
Proverbs 27:6 "Wounds from a friend can be trusted, but an enemy multiplies kisses."
oh how I long to discuss this further, it is a topic of incredible interest to me, but it is off topic, can we talk about this in a more appropriate place, like PM or different thread? but there is a difference between acts of kindness (what we see in these examples), and love, the motive for which we do them admittedly, man can mimic, or copy parts of the love, but the love moves way beyond actions only....again, can we talk about this a more appropriate place? agreed, love is not love if it does not flow through us.
I have no problem discussing it in a different thread or in PM but I think it is not off topic. The topic was about our failing to be kind to each other and that is what we are talking about when we talk about the love described in Matt 25:31 and following and the parable of the Good Samaritan. I don't think there is that much difference between being kind and compassionate and being loving. In fact I think they are the same. The motive is not relevant if there is no action. Love as described by Jesus is a verb, not a feeling we have.
__________________ I believe in a loving Creator who created us for the purpose of being capable of receiving and responding to the love of the Creator. Our first gift of life is temporary. If we attempt to fulfill our purpose of loving others, we have the hope of receiving a second gift of eternal life. There is no pain in the after life. If we do not receive the second gift, we are simply left with the first gift and will not exist after we die.
I have no problem discussing it in a different thread or in PM but I think it is not off topic. The topic was about our failing to be kind to each other and that is what we are talking about when we talk about the love described in Matt 25:31 and following and the parable of the Good Samaritan. I don't think there is that much difference between being kind and compassionate and being loving. In fact I think they are the same. The motive is not relevant if there is no action. Love as described by Jesus is a verb, not a feeling we have.
What I am saying is that 1. this topic is to big to deal with in a thread asking why people are venomous, the question in the OP deals more with the what are the reasons than the difference between X and Y
2. As to love, here is what I am saying. According to I Cor. 13, love is kind...but not all acts of kindness are love. Love does not think of it's own....but not every unselfish act is love. In order for something to be biblical love, it must have all of the things mentioned in I Cor. 13...therefore, I can feed the poor but not do it in love....
What I am saying is that 1. this topic is to big to deal with in a thread asking why people are venomous, the question in the OP deals more with the what are the reasons than the difference between X and Y
2. As to love, here is what I am saying. According to I Cor. 13, love is kind...but not all acts of kindness are love. Love does not think of it's own....but not every unselfish act is love. In order for something to be biblical love, it must have all of the things mentioned in I Cor. 13...therefore, I can feed the poor but not do it in love....
When would an act of kindness not be love? An act such as spanking a child might appear to be unkind but still be loving, so it would not really be unkind. In tough love situations, it might appear to be unloving but in fact would be. I think 1 Cor 13 is talking about what love is and what love is not, but I don't know there is a rule that bibical love must encompase everything said in 1 Cor 13. What unselfish action would not be loving? In trying to answer that question I suppose we could be foolish in our acting against our own self interest and still not be acting in the benefit of another. But this simply means that love requires wisdom and the loving thing to do is not always clear and obvious. The description of love in that passages seem to fit very well with the description of love Jesus used in describing the sheep in Matt 25:31 and following. What is there about the parable of the Good Samaritan that would not fit with 1 Cor 13?
__________________ I believe in a loving Creator who created us for the purpose of being capable of receiving and responding to the love of the Creator. Our first gift of life is temporary. If we attempt to fulfill our purpose of loving others, we have the hope of receiving a second gift of eternal life. There is no pain in the after life. If we do not receive the second gift, we are simply left with the first gift and will not exist after we die.
we went to a church some time ago, they were struggling, won't go into all the details...we were shown very many acts of kindness...but when the church collapsed, (long story)the only time we hear from someone is when they want something. that is an act of kindness, but does not show love. I guess, when you see the two side by side, the difference in amazing.
An act such as spanking a child might appear to be unkind but still be loving,
unkind and appearing unkind are two completely different things.
so it would not really be unkind. In tough love situations, it might appear to be unloving but in fact would be. I think 1 Cor 13 is talking about what love is and what love is not, but I don't know there is a rule that bibical love must encompase everything said in 1 Cor 13.
if you read I Cor 13, it tells us that Love is.....now we can get into the symantics of whether or not that is a definition or just a list of what is and is not, but the point is, nothing in the passage shows that this list can be taken appart and manipulated at will. It really is a fascinating study....
What unselfish action would not be loving?
I did not say it would not being a loving act, I said it may not be biblical love. Big difference....your applying our understanding of love on a biblical concept, very different things. If I say, I love Ice Cream, is that the same love as I have for say my husband? The same love I use when being kind? I bet if you put ice cream in front of me I would eat it, would that be kindness? Kindness to who? Point is this, biblical love does require action, but not all actions that are loving is biblical love.
In trying to answer that question I suppose we could be foolish in our acting against our own self interest and still not be acting in the benefit of another.
right, and the heart of Jesus teaching is love, that is putting others before ourselves.
But this simply means that love requires wisdom and the loving thing to do is not always clear and obvious.
but biblical love always comes from the Spirit within, that is the point, if all the law and prophets comes down to Love. then the love spoken of is much bigger than we are able to do alone, or we could indeed follow the law...let me see, another way to say it, if the law is all about love and love is possible in all men without God, what is the point of Christ?
The description of love in that passages seem to fit very well with the description of love Jesus used in describing the sheep in Matt 25:31 and following. What is there about the parable of the Good Samaritan that would not fit with 1 Cor 13?
Who said they weren't acts of love? What I said is that the acts, are not necessarily love...love transcends all acts, all emotions, it changes situations and transforms lives...
I've noticed a trend on this site of people making gross mischaracterizations of people who hold views other than their own. There is such vitriol against different denominations than theirs, different creation views, reproductive views, witnessing views, and really just about everything.
Isn't the central message of Jesus that we are supposed to edify Him through our words and actions among each other and projected to the world? All I have seen is bickering over issues where there is no clear right or wrong answers, and I have seen people make sweeping generalizations, encourage terrorism and murder, and use very...interesting interpretations of scripture to endorse their sexist, racist and other discriminatory prejudices.
I am not going to say which sides are right or wrong, because I have no authority to do so (I am not God, as some seem to feel endowed to act as), but I will say that the ignorance, prejudice and elevation of individual understanding is not going to encourage any non-Christians or lapsed Christians to come to know God. All they can see of Him through this forum is a God who revels in condescension, ignorance and the misery of anyone who disagrees.
Am I missing something?
You're not imagining things.
I think when people feel that their salvation rides on their particular
set of cherished beliefs, they're more likely to feel threatened when
someone comes along and starts questioning those beliefs. After
all, those sacred-cows are holding up their eternal well-being, or so
they believe.
Speaking from personal experience, the more one trusts that the
God of Love holds the whole world safely in His hands, the less
fearful they will be in the face of such a diversity of perspectives,
because they know that their salvation is not contingent upon their
fallible human understanding -- for we all see "through a glass
darkly" -- but has already been firmly established through Christ's
shed blood on the cross for the whole world.
That's the spiritual explanation. A scientific explanation might be
that the more venomous posts are just the result of low blood-
sugar. My personal rule: "Do Not Post When Hungry".
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__________________
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like women being the cause of sodomy, tiller meets his maker, mother's letter to her son, etc, which vent hatred and prejudice under the guise of Christian concern, are met with almost equal measures of derision and endorsement.
You are correct, there is a lot of that going on here. It is scandalous. I won't judge particularly the guilt of any individual, as I know not the measure of grace they have been given. But of the guilty, I think the root of it all is "self-serving." One feels as if he is the Pharisee, puffed up and righteous, and he convinces himself of his righteousness by way of tearing down his neighbor. A lot of the doctrinal animosity has to do with personal bitterness against a Church which did not conform to their beliefs (not the other way around, you see). Whoever said it was the devil's whisper ultimately behind this division is correct. After all, it is the devil's desire to sift the Church "like wheat."
Will I be horrendously off topic, to announce that I will be leaving the forum for this type of venom and the reaction to it? Last night I spent much time in prayer over the issue, and talked to my husband about the issue as well. After being reported and warned for being patient, kind, and/or truthful with people who want to be offended, I was consumed with the concept that we are no longer allowed to reply to posters in a Godly manner. Admittedly, I could be misunderstanding the violations, but when asked for clarity as to what the violation is, the reply is always the same, no reply at all. If we are not allowed to reply with truth, because it might offend....or not allowed to reply with patience, to determine what the motive is....if we are not allowed to reply in kindness to those who are easily offended or who are in violation, what is the point of calling it a "Christian" forum.
Because of these new rules, rules that as best I can determine limit my responses to those things that are politically correct and not those things that are Christ's, I see no option but to leave. I will miss the forum greatly and the friends I have made here. I have been touched, challenged, encouraged, taught, and I thrive partially because of the wonderful friends I have made on this forum. I will miss you all greatly, it will be very difficult to leave, but, I love my Lord more, and it is He that I serve....
I will remain long enough to see the threads I am currently involved in finished, if anyone wants an email address, let me know before that time, in the meantime, thanks to you all, even emotional arguments can be effective and productive. Again thanks, and may God grant you peace wherever He leads you.
Will I be horrendously off topic, to announce that I will be leaving the forum for this type of venom and the reaction to it? Last night I spent much time in prayer over the issue, and talked to my husband about the issue as well. After being reported and warned for being patient, kind, and/or truthful with people who want to be offended, I was consumed with the concept that we are no longer allowed to reply to posters in a Godly manner.
The problem here is you have preconceived notions and personal bias that you perceive as to what constitutes "godly manner."
"To every thing there is a season, and a time
to every purpose under the heaven."
King Solomon said there is a time for every season under heaven. There is a time for tranquil discussion and fellowship, and their is a time for heated debate. This is a forum primarily for debate. There are sections for fellowship and dialogue if you wish. But, when it comes to debate? Its a form of spiritual warfare. There is a time for every season under heaven. A time for peace, and a time for war.
Acts 9:28-29
"So Saul stayed with them and moved about freely
in Jerusalem, speaking boldly in the name of the Lord. He talked and debated with the Grecian Jews,
but they tried to kill him.
Paul was not being "ungodly" in his manner of debate. Yet? As you can see? It can produce strong reactions when the truth is being presented.
Believers debate believers on issues that need to be resolved.
Acts 15:1-2
"Some men came down from Judea to Antioch and were
teaching the brothers: "Unless you are circumcised,
according to the custom taught by Moses, you cannot
be saved." This brought Paul and Barnabas into sharp
dispute and debate with them. So Paul and Barnabas
were appointed, along with some other believers, to
go up to Jerusalem to see the apostles
and elders about this question.' "
Being "godly" is not about always being sweetness and light. There is a time for that, and there is a time for debating and dispute amongst believers.
Yet, I admit that some come here claiming to be Christian, but after a few posts they reveal that have no clue as to what constitutes the meaning of being born again. They can be quite nasty and haughty. Yet? Believers debated such ones publicly as well.
My personal rule: "Do Not Post When Hungry". 
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