| General Theology The forum for general theological discussions about issues that do not fit in any other forum, eg. Angelology |
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23rd June 2009, 11:18 AM
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Reps: 1,434,609,831,226,258,688 (power: 1,434,609,831,226,311) | | | COuld be Thekla, but Clement was writing from Rome - so it would appear in the language of Rome it means Universal. [A whole - united - universally]
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Matthew Chapter 7 7 "Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 8 For everyone who asks, receives; and the one who seeks, finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened." |
23rd June 2009, 02:55 PM
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Reps: 782,651,787,054,574 (power: 782,651,787,060) | | Originally Posted by WarriorAngel  Notice how it was the Corinthians who appealed to Rome: just as the early church of Antioch appealed to the Apostles at Jerusalem for a solution to their problems in Acts 15:2. But, why so in this case, since there were no living Apostles in Rome?
Why didn't the Corinthians of this time appeal to nearby Ephesus (as they did in the days of Paul: 1 Cor 7:1 and 16:8), where the Apostle John was still alive and presiding!
You do know that during that era, Corinth had a large population of Romans, and was entirely under the political influence of Rome, right? |
23rd June 2009, 04:29 PM
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Reps: 1,599,740,264,866,359,808 (power: 1,599,740,264,866,399) | | Originally Posted by WarriorAngel COuld be Thekla, but Clement was writing from Rome - so it would appear in the language of Rome it means Universal. [A whole - united - universally]
Corith was a Roman colony. It wasn't the old Greek city. It was located in Greece, yes.
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Fāilte dhut a Mhoire, tha thu lan de na grāsan;
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23rd June 2009, 04:31 PM
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Reps: 1,599,740,264,866,359,808 (power: 1,599,740,264,866,399) | | Originally Posted by WarriorAngel It's pretty easy to ascertain that I did cite them - I cited them and everyone ignored them.
No one has ignored you citing Peter had a pre-eminence. Are we going to go over this too???
All you have to do is do more than just continually pointing to that and show that he had it exclusively. And you've NEVER done that. The best attempt is your citing of a dictionary to show that he must have had it over every other person, when it doesn't mean that at all.
You simply post again and again with evidence that doesn't quite support you. Then you add your own interpretation that takes you across the line but it's just your interpretation, added onto the evidence. Not the evidence itself that supports you. And you do it over and over and over again.
Corinth appealed to the Pope. I agree it is evidence of authority. It's not evidence of universal authority because Corinth wasn't 'Greek', but 'Roman'. The old Greek city had been replaced by a Roman colony. Roman colonies tended to appeal to Rome, and as shown by my evidence (cited several times) from Runciman, and Davis the early church followed Roman administrative practice.
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Will you be my Valentine?
Fāilte dhut a Mhoire, tha thu lan de na grāsan;
Tha an Tighearna maille riut.
Hail Mary, full of Grace;
The Lord is with thee |
23rd June 2009, 04:48 PM
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| | Join Date: 28th November 2003 Location: Sydney, Australia
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Reps: 105,291,347,172,269,648 (power: 105,291,347,172,284) | | Originally Posted by Mikeb85 You do know that during that era, Corinth had a large population of Romans, and was entirely under the political influence of Rome, right?
Yes, she knows, it has been posted in response virtually every time Clement is brought up, but as usual WA posts the same argument as if it has never been answered. She ignores the historically established fact that there was regular trade between Rome and Corinth, making correspondence between the two very consistent. She ignores the fact that both Churches had the Apostle Paul as their father, giving them a particular kinship, especially since Clement had been a companion of Paul. Every time she posts on Clement's letter to the Corinthians she conveniently forgets this and other points we have made and posts as if none of it has been brought up.
John |
23rd June 2009, 08:19 PM
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Reps: 1,434,609,831,226,258,688 (power: 1,434,609,831,226,311) | | CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Corinth
Corinth
(CORINTHUS)
A titular archiepiscopal see of Greece.
-----------------------
The letter was to the Corinthian Church which had a Greek Bishop.
IT was Greek.
Plainly the Corinths were not seperate Rites at that time.
Again - St John was alive - Greek, Roman, African, Oriental - whatever or whoever lived there - it would have been St John - not the Roman Pope they could have referred to if the Roman See didn't have the authority over even other Apostles and the entire Church..
THEY did not go to St John....repeat - THEY DID NOT GO TO AN APOSTLE.
Why didn't they go to St John? He was an Apostle...correct?
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Matthew Chapter 7 7 "Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 8 For everyone who asks, receives; and the one who seeks, finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened." |
23rd June 2009, 08:37 PM
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"Refounded as a Roman colony in the middle of the first century, Corinth had built up a peculiarly intimate connection in trade and culture with the mother city."...... Early Christian Fathers
"...At the time Clement wrote to the church of Corinth, it was led by a group of presbyters.".... From Apostles to Bishops
No Bishop was teched by Clement, just the lower Clergy (who rebelled against the Presbyters ). Furthermore, Bishop of Rome sent the letter to colony refounded by Rome.
God helps |
23rd June 2009, 08:50 PM
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Reps: 25,647,408,114,249,816 (power: 25,647,408,114,255) | | Originally Posted by WarriorAngel CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Corinth Corinth
(CORINTHUS) A titular archiepiscopal see of Greece.
-----------------------
The letter was to the Corinthian Church which had a Greek Bishop.
IT was Greek. Plainly the Corinths were not seperate Rites at that time. Again - St John was alive - Greek, Roman, African, Oriental - whatever or whoever lived there - it would have been St John - not the Roman Pope they could have referred to if the Roman See didn't have the authority over even other Apostles and the entire Church..
THEY did not go to St John....repeat - THEY DID NOT GO TO AN APOSTLE.
Why didn't they go to St John? He was an Apostle...correct?
"After the Byzantine emperors had violently withdrawn Illyricum from Papal direction, Corinth appears as a metropolis with seven suffragan sees;..." CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Corinth
The Byzantine Emperors came much later than I Clement. It was in the same article you've posted, yet....you thought it was of no importance for some reason.
God helps |
23rd June 2009, 09:40 PM
| | On and on
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Reps: 3,070,193,490,385,677,824 (power: 3,070,193,490,385,696) | | Originally Posted by NewMan99 SUP,
I have told you repeatedly that I am not going to discuss that topic with you anymore. Your premise is wrong - I have explained why countless times - so there is no point in moving past the (faulty) premise on to the next step in your rabbit trail. If the foundation is wrong - the things built on it will be wrong - and the conclusions will certainly be wrong. Sorry but I just don't have the time or energy for this.
Dude, just looking for a simple yes or no answer. No debate.
So, is the resurrection Sunday morning an Immutable Truth? |
23rd June 2009, 10:22 PM
|  | New CF: More Political, Less Charity, No Unity
55 
| | Join Date: 20th March 2005 Location: Earth
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Reps: 40,992,997,780,237 (power: 40,992,997,792) | | I wrote this: Assuming I have correctly represented your position (but...admittedly...I could be wrong)...I want to point out that disregarding or disobeying a Pope is not evidence either for or against papal authority. Papal authority - if it exists - would be an objective reality whether it is obeyed or not.
Philothei responded with: Originally Posted by Philothei if this is your post^ then that is what you said... that whether one is disobeyed or not autority exists so ..
No! That is NOT what I said. Look CAREFULLY at the last sentence...it reads:
"Papal authority - if it exists - would be an objective reality whether it is obeyed or not."
That is QUITE A DIFFERENT THING than what you put in my mouth.
__________________ I Am Catholic "The Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting; it has been found difficult and left untried." G.K. Chesterton | | |
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