I founded a discussion forum (and have since transferred ownership to another) with the thinking that it would be a "church". That was incorrect. A church has sacraments that are administered, God is worshiped, is lead by ordained leaders, and practices biblical discipline. After wise counsel from others it was clear to me that my forum was never going to be some kind of "internet church". Instead the forum I founded is a ministry for training, education, theology, worship, and discussion. To claim CF as a church, in my opinion, does dishonor to the biblical teachings about the church. Better to wrap your vision around a personal ministry where your gifts can be used to bring glory to God. When I review many of the threads here as a newcomer, I see many that do not bring glory to God. That is unfortunate and a situation that would require a great deal of immediate action on your part (church discipline) should you consider CF a "church".
I am lifting up prayers for you, that God will guide you as you undertake this new endeavor. I feel you pain and know how hard this task can be, my brother. Let your litmus test for all that you do be "Am I glorifying God?" and you no doubt will be successful.
AMR
If your definition of a church is correct, it denies million of people in the world who live either in remote locations or under repressive regimes from ever becoming part of a church family. I think this disenfranchises a whole lot of believers for whom the Internet is the only place where they can interact with other Christians. I think if you went to them and suggested that what they were doing was somehow less valuable than what a person attending a real "physical" church does, they would be really disappointed.
In Jesus' time, there was a similar situation- it was very difficult for believers to meet and interact in a physical church setting- the distances were simply too great in most cases. So they exchanged letters- as Paul, for example, did all the time, and used them to honor God and maintain a spirit of unity.
We should be careful, though, about getting into too much of a discussion about this matter since it is not a salvation issue and is only peripherally related to the OP.
__________________ John 6:33: "For the bread of God is he who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world."
If your definition of a church is correct, it denies million of people in the world who live either in remote locations or under repressive regimes from ever becoming part of a church family. I think this disenfranchises a whole lot of believers for whom the Internet is the only place where they can interact with other Christians. I think if you went to them and suggested that what they were doing was somehow less valuable than what a person attending a real "physical" church does, they would be really disappointed.
In Jesus' time, there was a similar situation- it was very difficult for believers to meet and interact in a physical church setting- the distances were simply too great in most cases. So they exchanged letters- as Paul, for example, did all the time, and used them to honor God and maintain a spirit of unity.
We should be careful, though, about getting into too much of a discussion about this matter since it is not a salvation issue and is only peripherally related to the OP.
My definition relates to the physical, observable, church. Not the invisible church to which you speak. There is nothing invisible about a discussion forum.
AMR
__________________ Ask Mr. Religion (AMR) Reformed Theology Institute
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To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. , and it shall be answered. Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips
I think Erwin tried to have a board of pastors, but it did not work. It is hard to come to a consensus. Someone will always feel alienated or ignored by the majority vote. And the majority will have to compromise so that no one is ever 100 percent satisfied.
You do realize the alternative to this would be a dictatorship, don't you? Then NO ONE would be satisfied -- save the dictator and his/her cronies.
i know this has been a long time coming, and i apologize for that. i wanted to communicate with you all first and for you all to gain clarity before sharing with the rest of the board.
before i get into it, i just want to ask you all to try and read this as from Christ's perspective. what i mean by that is to try and put our own biases aside. the below statement can be taken from a "liberal" standpoint in an anything goes attitude. it can also be taken "conservativly" in a walk on eggshells around everyone. it is not meant for either extreme.
as i have been praying over the last few weeks, this was the only thing that kept coming back to me.
36"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" 37Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. 38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself. 40All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments." Matt 22:36-40
As pertaining to Christ:
i try to think of CF as church, and i thought of the character of Christ and what he would want his people to be like. i want CF to be a place where Christians have a place to discuss the things of Christ...even amongst all the different denominations out there. it would be a place where all who claim to have a personal relationship with Christ can come to talk about Him and worship Him.
As pertaining to Life:
i would want people to develop deep relationships with each other and be able to walk with each other both in the bright and dark times of life...share in both bliss and sorrow...joy and heartache....in essence live life and grow together
As pertaining to those that dont know Christ:
i want those that are not believers to be able to interact amicably with believers on the board. i would hope that the believers on CF would welcome non-believers with open loving arms and for the believers to show them the light of Christ in their interactions with them in speech and attitude.
however, let's say CF was a ford mustang forum. if someone really loved chevy camaros, and started to say how camaros were better than ford and fords suck and constantly caused trouble with other members, they are not here to be friends nor are they here to find out more about ford mustangs...hence they would no longer be welcome on the boards. i think you all get the picture.
may it never be said that someone, whether christian or not, did not find gracious love here on CF at some point.
please post questions, and i will try to answer them to the best of my ability.
Hello Paul,
I think you will have a greater likelihood of seeing your vision become a reality if the top leadership is rotated out and fresh leaders are rotated in. I also believe it will be necessary for you to monitor leadership to insure they are embodying the key points of your vision and reflecting it in their actions.
In order to be fair, wouldn't it be better if hiring is based on merit, hiring from within whenever possible, and not cronyism.
The current leadership has worked hard but the vast majority of leaders in every organization are replaced, transferred, or assigned to other areas to prevent rigid thinking, entrenched attitudes, and tunnelvision. It is unfortunate that during the course of the current leadership's reign, a significant number of staff have quit, others have been fired, large numbers of members have left, and the forum is at one of it's lowest point's since it's inception.
Of course, when a mantra of "if you don't like it here, then leave," is heard fairly regularly, that doesn't really reflect what you want to accomplish with your vision, nor do many other unusual managerial practices I have seen here since I've been a member and on staff such as people reacting with condescending, nasty, holier than thou attitudes toward others on the forum.
I hope that Christ's love will be reflected in the actions of both staff and members. I also hope that the "real problems" on this board are addressed and corrected. God bless everyone.
Good luck.
__________________ Sacerdote, Baptist Minister & Chaplain US Army Retired To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
It is not a good sign that Pauler has not responded again to any of the issues that have been raised here.
Is Christian Forums just another business enterprise that he tries to run on a part-time basis, but that he really does not have the time, interest, or experience to turn into an effective Christian ministry?
__________________ John 6:33: "For the bread of God is he who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world."
I saw the link for this thread in another and thought it might be good to comment at the outset. Having read this thread I don't think I'll bother - in it are all the ingredients that have made others sell-on CF and we are only up to page 3!
Originally Posted by Tychicus2
Thanks for sharing Pauler...
IMHO a key ingredient to improve this forum is an actual method to hold Mod's accountable for their actions... the current *suggestion complaint* model is useless in my experience here in multiple issues at different times... I for one have given up any hope of working to change CF for the better... I have chosen to stay for the sake of relationships with good people here, but I have little respect for several in leadership positions here at CF...
I hope that didn't go over the line in *discussing* staff actions, but this is an issue that has been brought up multiple times by multiple people and has not been addressed in any meaningful way to my knowledge yet...
Is there any plan to impliment any changes to bring about real accountability esspecially for the Blue A level staff?
Here...
Ty
Originally Posted by sacerdote
Hello Paul,
I think you will have a greater likelihood of seeing your vision become a reality if the top leadership is rotated out and fresh leaders are rotated in. I also believe it will be necessary for you to monitor leadership to insure they are embodying the key points of your vision and reflecting it in their actions.
In order to be fair, wouldn't it be better if hiring is based on merit, hiring from within whenever possible, and not cronyism.
The current leadership has worked hard but the vast majority of leaders in every organization are replaced, transferred, or assigned to other areas to prevent rigid thinking, entrenched attitudes, and tunnelvision. It is unfortunate that during the course of the current leadership's reign, a significant number of staff have quit, others have been fired, large numbers of members have left, and the forum is at one of it's lowest point's since it's inception.
Of course, when a mantra of "if you don't like it here, then leave," is heard fairly regularly, that doesn't really reflect what you want to accomplish with your vision, nor do many other unusual managerial practices I have seen here since I've been a member and on staff such as people reacting with condescending, nasty, holier than thou attitudes toward others on the forum.
I hope that Christ's love will be reflected in the actions of both staff and members. I also hope that the "real problems" on this board are addressed and corrected. God bless everyone.
Good luck.
[my bold emp.]
I had no intention of adding to this thread since every effort I've
made to speak out for change for 2 years not only goes nowhere,
but results in negative action or anger towards me.
But I will second the above posts - and add my concerns about top
mgt. as well.
As to what I bolded in black, this is a quote from one of the "A"s that I
got yesterday for my input on a thread regarding change at CF:
You've been griping for a long time about CF and how much you dislike it
and how it's run and what it stands for. And yet you never, ever leave.
This is what most hear if they attempt to work to seek change (to
be heard) for a site that is in serious decline on several levels.
Either go along with the program or be dismissed.
One other thing needs to mentioned are the increasing rules that have
been implimented - it's utterly rendered members as helpless peons. (*note, I do understand why the need is felt to impliment them, however, it's gotten out of hand at this level when more keep getting added)
When staff restricts all member discussion of policy, rules, staff action or
any displeasure, we lose ALL ability to be heard or act on anything that is
decided by management. Members are at the utter mercy of upper staff.
We have also been told that we cannot go to the owner with any
of our concerns, we have to go through them (the proper channels).
Ok, but how do you hear anything from us? Do we trust it gets to
you if they feel it's to be dismissed?
As Ty mentioned, posting on "suggestion" threads goes nowhere
either. It's completely useless when the top wants to do what
they want to do.
If you complain, you get attacked for being a bothersome naysayer.
The frustration over the ever increasing restrictions, regulations
and code of silence have forced many to leave and several I know
to be on the verge of leaving in exasperation.
I have much more detail I could add, but I'm declining to share it
for obvious reasons.
What I emphasised in blue above is what I agree is needed to help
this forum at this point. (not the only thing, but most likely a good
part of it).
It is not a good sign that Pauler has not responded again to any of the issues that have been raised here.
Is Christian Forums just another business enterprise that he tries to run on a part-time basis, but that he really does not have the time, interest, or experience to turn into an effective Christian ministry?
In the same post I quoted from upper staff to me, she said this when
I noted he hasn't been back on this thread:
That's because all the way on the other side of the world on vacation
I'm assuming he's on vacation?
I put in my 02. cents, but I won't be continuing in this thread - I'm tired of the results (or lack thereof),
so I hope I helped support others here even tho I probly shouldn't have.
Here
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