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3rd July 2009, 02:52 PM
| | Gimme That Old Time Religion
  
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Reps: 474,698,394,322,854,976 (power: 474,698,394,322,865) | | Originally Posted by OrdinaryClay  Your examples boil down to two basic sets: needing salvation and those not needing salvation.
I've always understood free will and our physical bodies (as Paul points out so well) fundamental to our need for salvation. ETI implies both.
I'm not sure exactly what you mean here, but I think ETI implies nothing more than intelligence, and that's a tricky word. It seems as difficult to define intelligence as it is to define life. Do you think intelligence necessarily implies will? What other kind of faith does Christ offer?
I have no idea, except it seems it would have to be commensurate with the state or condition of those who need it. For example, we know that "Without the shedding of blood, there is no remission of sin." What if there are sinful ETI who don't have blood? The idea couldn't exactly apply to them.
I'm just saying that we don't know for certain that Christianity as we know it would have to apply across the universe. One, because it might not be needed, and two, because God could possibly work in a different fashion. What we do know though, is that the ultimate thing - the glory of God - would be universal. So when the NT says "every knee shall bow", I believe that ultimately will apply to all ETI, whether or not they have knees.  Any possible ETI are not angels. They would be on a physical planet bound by the same physical laws we are.
But it's supposed that the majority of angels have wills and have not misused their wills, so they're an example of created beings which are not fallen. So there could be other created beings which are not fallen. I don't believe that as a fact, I just don't see how we can rule it out. |
3rd July 2009, 07:54 PM
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Reps: 10 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by Chesterton I'm not sure exactly what you mean here, but I think ETI implies nothing more than intelligence, and that's a tricky word. It seems as difficult to define intelligence as it is to define life. Do you think intelligence necessarily implies will?
To me the definition is clear as crystal. See my many posts on this.
Yes. I have no idea, except it seems it would have to be commensurate with the state or condition of those who need it. For example, we know that "Without the shedding of blood, there is no remission of sin." What if there are sinful ETI who don't have blood? The idea couldn't exactly apply to them.
I'm just saying that we don't know for certain that Christianity as we know it would have to apply across the universe. One, because it might not be needed, and two, because God could possibly work in a different fashion.
...
Christ is Christianity. He is an absolute truth. His words are absolute truth. He taught us absolute truth. I can only assume His absolute truth would be absolute to all of His creation.
Do we have all the details. No. We see through a glass darkly.
As I said, personally I believe, not irrationally, that ETI does not exist. I don't believe this belief is critical to ones salvation. What we do know though, is that the ultimate thing - the glory of God - would be universal. So when the NT says "every knee shall bow", I believe that ultimately will apply to all ETI, whether or not they have knees.
I agree. |
5th July 2009, 05:42 PM
|  | The Rapture can take a hike
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Reps: 5,038,481,752,567,930 (power: 5,038,481,752,583) | | Originally Posted by Chesterton That could be right, or "creation" could possibly refer just to Earth. The angels are created and most didn't fall.
So everything will be ok once humans move to Mars?
__________________ simul justus et peccator |
5th July 2009, 06:08 PM
| | Gimme That Old Time Religion
| | Join Date: 24th May 2008 Location: 'neath the marquee moon
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Reps: 474,698,394,322,854,976 (power: 474,698,394,322,865) | | Originally Posted by theFijian So everything will be ok once humans move to Mars?
I didn't say Mars was excluded from Romans 8. |
5th July 2009, 06:47 PM
| | The Rapture can take a hike
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Reps: 5,038,481,752,567,930 (power: 5,038,481,752,583) | | Originally Posted by Chesterton I didn't say Mars was excluded from Romans 8.
But it only applies on planet earth?
__________________ simul justus et peccator |
5th July 2009, 07:54 PM
| | Gimme That Old Time Religion
| | Join Date: 24th May 2008 Location: 'neath the marquee moon
Posts: 6,132
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Reps: 474,698,394,322,854,976 (power: 474,698,394,322,865) | | Originally Posted by theFijian But it only applies on planet earth?
I didn't say that either. All I know for certain is that Paul was delivering a message at least to humanity. But if you think "the whole of creation" means the whole of the universe, that's fine with me, it may very well mean that. I don't have a serious interest in the question, and I didn't intend to have to defend the virtue of some distant aliens that I don't much believe in anyway. | | |
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