Adam & Eve

MoonLancer · #11 16th June 2009, 02:56 PM

Originally Posted by GuidanceNeeded

Where do you draw a line and say "ok this person the Bible speaks of is truly a person and not just a metaphor."

In many cases the bible equivocates when using names. sometimes its the tribe itself, sometimes its the specific ruler of that tribe and sometimes its the first ruler of that tribe.

I think when you say people after Adam and Eve its simply a quasi historical chronicling of a group of tribes and diverges at times to talk about the leaders of those tribes. and Adam and Eve are there mythology explaining were they come from.

[serious] · #12 16th June 2009, 03:16 PM

Originally Posted by GuidanceNeeded

And all the decendants of Adam and Eve? So were they all metaphors too?

Where do you draw a line and say "ok this person the Bible speaks of is truly a person and not just a metaphor."

Where it makes sense. Just as all mainline christians have now rejected geocentrism, so too must we reject all interpretations that are at odds with observable fact.

GuidanceNeeded · #13 16th June 2009, 03:39 PM

Luke 3:38 recognized Adam as the son of God

Luke 3:21-38
3:21 Now when all the people were baptized, it came to pass, that Jesus also being baptized, and praying, the heaven was opened,
3:22 And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.
3:23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli,
3:24 Which was the son of Matthat, which was the son of Levi, which was the son of Melchi, which was the son of Janna, which was the son of Joseph,
3:25 Which was the son of Mattathias, which was the son of Amos, which was the son of Naum, which was the son of Esli, which was the son of Nagge,
3:26 Which was the son of Maath, which was the son of Mattathias, which was the son of Semei, which was the son of Joseph, which was the son of Juda,
3:27 Which was the son of Joanna, which was the son of Rhesa, which was the son of Zorobabel, which was the son of Salathiel, which was the son of Neri,
3:28 Which was the son of Melchi, which was the son of Addi, which was the son of Cosam, which was the son of Elmodam, which was the son of Er,
3:29 Which was the son of Jose, which was the son of Eliezer, which was the son of Jorim, which was the son of Matthat, which was the son of Levi,
3:30 Which was the son of Simeon, which was the son of Juda, which was the son of Joseph, which was the son of Jonan, which was the son of Eliakim,
3:31 Which was the son of Melea, which was the son of Menan, which was the son of Mattatha, which was the son of Nathan, which was the son of David,
3:32 Which was the son of Jesse, which was the son of Obed, which was the son of Booz, which was the son of Salmon, which was the son of Naasson,
3:33 Which was the son of Aminadab, which was the son of Aram, which was the son of Esrom, which was the son of Phares, which was the son of Juda,
3:34 Which was the son of Jacob, which was the son of Isaac, which was the son of Abraham, which was the son of Thara, which was the son of Nachor,
3:35 Which was the son of Saruch, which was the son of Ragau, which was the son of Phalec, which was the son of Heber, which was the son of Sala,
3:36 Which was the son of Cainan, which was the son of Arphaxad, which was the son of Sem, which was the son of Noe, which was the son of Lamech,
3:37 Which was the son of Mathusala, which was the son of Enoch, which was the son of Jared, which was the son of Maleleel, which was the son of Cainan,
3:38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.

Cabal · #14 16th June 2009, 03:43 PM

Originally Posted by GuidanceNeeded

Luke 3:38 recognized Adam as the son of God

I'd be curious to know what basis he was using for that genealogy, how he composed it, etc.

And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph

Sorry, forgot the word "supposed" only applied to Joseph.

AV1611VET · #15 16th June 2009, 03:44 PM

Guidance, I'm not a TE, and I don't think like one; but the answer I think you're looking for is Abraham.

In TE thinking, the first eleven chapters of the Bible are just an allegory.

Then, starting with Abraham, the Bible suddenly goes literal.

Abraham cannot be overtly denied w/o incurring the charge of being anti-semitic and anti-islamic, since both trace their lineage back to him.

GuidanceNeeded · #16 16th June 2009, 03:46 PM

Originally Posted by Cabal

I'd be curious to know what basis he was using for that genealogy, how he composed it, etc.

When I get to Heaven I will be sure to ask him

But for the time being I have God's Word (i.e. Bible) to go by

Hespera · #17 16th June 2009, 03:49 PM

Originally Posted by GuidanceNeeded

Luke 3:38 recognized Adam as the son of God

Luke 3:21-38
3:21 Now when all the people were baptized, it came to pass, that Jesus also being baptized, and praying, the heaven was opened,
3:22 And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.
3:23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli,
3:24 Which was the son of Matthat, which was the son of Levi, which was the son of Melchi, which was the son of Janna, which was the son of Joseph,
3:25 Which was the son of Mattathias, which was the son of Amos, which was the son of Naum, which was the son of Esli, which was the son of Nagge,
3:26 Which was the son of Maath, which was the son of Mattathias, which was the son of Semei, which was the son of Joseph, which was the son of Juda,
3:27 Which was the son of Joanna, which was the son of Rhesa, which was the son of Zorobabel, which was the son of Salathiel, which was the son of Neri,
3:28 Which was the son of Melchi, which was the son of Addi, which was the son of Cosam, which was the son of Elmodam, which was the son of Er,
3:29 Which was the son of Jose, which was the son of Eliezer, which was the son of Jorim, which was the son of Matthat, which was the son of Levi,
3:30 Which was the son of Simeon, which was the son of Juda, which was the son of Joseph, which was the son of Jonan, which was the son of Eliakim,
3:31 Which was the son of Melea, which was the son of Menan, which was the son of Mattatha, which was the son of Nathan, which was the son of David,
3:32 Which was the son of Jesse, which was the son of Obed, which was the son of Booz, which was the son of Salmon, which was the son of Naasson,
3:33 Which was the son of Aminadab, which was the son of Aram, which was the son of Esrom, which was the son of Phares, which was the son of Juda,
3:34 Which was the son of Jacob, which was the son of Isaac, which was the son of Abraham, which was the son of Thara, which was the son of Nachor,
3:35 Which was the son of Saruch, which was the son of Ragau, which was the son of Phalec, which was the son of Heber, which was the son of Sala,
3:36 Which was the son of Cainan, which was the son of Arphaxad, which was the son of Sem, which was the son of Noe, which was the son of Lamech,
3:37 Which was the son of Mathusala, which was the son of Enoch, which was the son of Jared, which was the son of Maleleel, which was the son of Cainan,
3:38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.

That is a chronicle, yes. Any anthro student knows that primitive / preliterate people all over the world have memorized lists of thier ancestors, all the way back to the first Polynesian / Eskimo / Bushman / Jew etc etc. Their ancestors were all the first people. Generally they give themselves a name that translates as something like "the true people".

No matter whose list you use, I will still not be a descendant of Adam and Eve", or "Noah". The middle eastern sky god religions spread out of the middle east but that doesnt make them any more valid than if they'd died out there.

Regarding this line here btw..."Adam, which was the son of God."

How does that reconcile with the part about how Jesus is his only son?

Cabal · #18 16th June 2009, 03:49 PM

Originally Posted by AV1611VET

Guidance, I'm not a TE, and I don't think like one, but the answer I think you're looking for is Abraham.

In TE thinking, the first eleven chapters of the Bible are just an allegory, then, starting with Abraham*, the Bible suddenly goes literal.

Funny that, seeing as there's naff-all evidence for much literal prior to that.

And at least we're "consistent" for longer than you "literalists" - you're interpreting as soon as the first instance of "very good" comes up.

* Abraham cannot be overtly denied w/o incurring the charge of being anti-semitic and anti-islamic, since both trace their lineage back to him.

Yes, yes, and evolution resulted in the concentration camps, and True Christians NEVER encouraged slavery, no sir! And I'm a Son of Sceva!

Cabal · #19 16th June 2009, 03:52 PM

Originally Posted by GuidanceNeeded

When I get to Heaven I will be sure to ask him

But for the time being I have God's Word (i.e. Bible) to go by

Might want to remember to check with Paul what he wrote in a letter about not freaking out over genealogies too

Anyway, I hope you can respond to my larger post soon.

GuidanceNeeded · #20 16th June 2009, 03:53 PM

Originally Posted by AV1611VET

Guidance, I'm not a TE, and I don't think like one; but the answer I think you're looking for is Abraham.

In TE thinking, the first eleven chapters of the Bible are just an allegory.

Then, starting with Abraham, the Bible suddenly goes literal.

Abraham cannot be overtly denied w/o incurring the charge of being anti-semitic and anti-islamic, since both trace their lineage back to him.

Thank you AV

So that means we need to forget the first 11 Chapters of Genesis