| Creation & Evolution Forum for the discussion of this important topic. This forum is open to non-believers. There is a Christians-only forum in the Christians-only section too. |
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17th June 2009, 09:35 PM
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Reps: 1,406,367,864,515,650,816 (power: 1,406,367,864,515,657) | | | If you don't want to look at it from a biblical stand point, then look at it scientifically.
Evolution is a progression of changes. Meaning that the original form no longer exists once the evolution begins.
If we came from apes/chimpanzes/monkeys...then they wouldnt exist in this day and time. This universe is running on a PRECISE formula. Just one slight change in several things in nature and life would be non-existant. I don't see how one can believe that soo many perfectly alligned things could have happened by mistake.
Just my take.....scientifically.
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Above all arguments or thoughts, love wins. My only answer to the world, about myself, is I am not perfect. I don't have all the answers. I can love the hell out of you though.
It's my honest belief that, in this day and age, Jesus would have been a biker dude. Feel free to ask me why. |
17th June 2009, 09:50 PM
|  | I prefer you trust your reason.
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Reps: 228,193,399,886,833,536 (power: 228,193,399,886,840) | | Originally Posted by byHISway  If you don't want to look at it from a biblical stand point, then look at it scientifically.
Evolution is a progression of changes. Meaning that the original form no longer exists once the evolution begins.
If we came from apes/chimpanzes/monkeys...then they wouldnt exist in this day and time. This universe is running on a PRECISE formula. Just one slight change in several things in nature and life would be non-existant. I don't see how one can believe that soo many perfectly alligned things could have happened by mistake.
Just my take.....scientifically.
While I can appreciate your attempt at scientific thought, it is evident that you haven't examined the theory of evolution in any light, biblical or scientific. Nobody is claiming that we came from monkeys/chimpanzees/apes. We share a common apelike ancestor with monkeys, yes, and that ancestor is gone, as you said it should be. Actually, something like 98% of all species that ever lived are now extinct.
The second part of your argument is argument from incredulity, a logical fallacy. Just because you can't believe it doesn't mean it's not possible.
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17th June 2009, 10:04 PM
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Reps: 38,672,220,164,744,672 (power: 38,672,220,164,753) | | Originally Posted by byHISway If you don't want to look at it from a biblical stand point, then look at it scientifically.
Evolution is a progression of changes. Meaning that the original form no longer exists once the evolution begins.
If we came from apes/chimpanzes/monkeys...then they wouldnt exist in this day and time.
There's no reason to assume that the common ancestor must necessarily seize to exist. Your parents didn't disappear once you were born. Europeans didn't vanish as soon as the US was founded.
That said, the common ancestor we do share with chimpanzees is as it happens extinct. Originally Posted by byHISway This universe is running on a PRECISE formula. Just one slight change in several things in nature and life would be non-existant.
The chance that we live in a world where the conditions allow for our existance are 100%. If the conditions didn't allow for our existance we wouldn't be here in the first place. Originally Posted by byHISway I don't see how one can believe that soo many perfectly alligned things could have happened by mistake.
I don't believe such. Originally Posted by byHISway Just my take.....scientifically.
It's your take but there's nothing scientific about it. I suggest that you learn a bit about evolution before assuming that you have valid critique to offer.
You can start at this site: Welcome to Evolution 101!
I also recently saw this excellent video that addresses some common misconceptions:
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17th June 2009, 10:58 PM
|  | SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE
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Reps: 9,223,372,036,854,775,808 (power: 9,223,372,036,856,908) | | Originally Posted by sandwiches You haven't answered my last post. How do explain the discrepancy between what is and what the Bible says it should be?
Don't know, sandwiches.
I reek when it comes to explaining things past several posts.
I do the best I can, then I have to quit.
Like I said, maybe someone more informed can explain it better --- I can't.
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18th June 2009, 01:56 AM
|  | Mas sabe el diablo por viejo que por diablo.
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Reps: 142,567,785,179,653,616 (power: 142,567,785,179,661) | | Originally Posted by AV1611VET Don't know, sandwiches.
I reek when it comes to explaining things past several posts.
I do the best I can, then I have to quit.
Like I said, maybe someone more informed can explain it better --- I can't.
Sorry, I'm back. But you didn't explain it at all. |
18th June 2009, 03:41 AM
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Reps: 118,712,461,112,472,176 (power: 118,712,461,112,500) | | Originally Posted by sandwiches You haven't answered my last post. How do explain the discrepancy between what is and what the Bible says it should be?
Can you give an example or two of these? I never saw one yet in my life. (except for a few misconceptions, easily straitened out)
Not like God was wrong, or something.
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If the flood happened when laws were different than this present state we know, all bets are off for present state science being able to extrapolate backwards in any meaningful or accurate way. |
18th June 2009, 03:46 AM
| | Mas sabe el diablo por viejo que por diablo.
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Reps: 142,567,785,179,653,616 (power: 142,567,785,179,661) | | Originally Posted by dad Can you give an example or two of these? I never saw one yet in my life. (except for a few misconceptions, easily straitened out)
Not like God was wrong, or something.
God hasn't been wrong, as far as I know, but humans have been and seeing how the Bible was written by said humans...
This was the original question as he said he believed anything the Bible says over ANYTHING else including his own senses:
Do you believe that the world is immovable as in Psalm 93:1? "He fixed the earth firm and immovable."
Edit: He eventually said that he "draws the line" at saying that the Bible is ever wrong as though to indicate that he agreed with me but because of principle, he is unwilling to actually admit it. |
18th June 2009, 03:57 AM
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Reps: 118,712,461,112,472,176 (power: 118,712,461,112,500) | | Originally Posted by sandwiches God hasn't been wrong, as far as I know, but humans have been and seeing how the Bible was written by said humans...
No. It was recorded by men. It was written by God. Some of it was Him talking directly. Actual quates from the Almighty. Some were heard by men. Example..' this is my beloved son, in whom I am well pleased'
Other times God actually wrote it Himself. Look at the ten commandments, by the finger of God! No need to blame men. This was the original question as he said he believed anything the Bible says over ANYTHING else including his own senses:
Do you believe that the world is immovable as in Psalm 93:1? "He fixed the earth firm and immovable." Of course. Do you know what it means? It means that this world ain't going anywhere. It will be here forever. Even after the surface of this planet gets burned with fire, and a new heavens appear. The ball itself will still be here, and made new. It is unmovable. The spirit is required to comprehend what is said, and meant.
Another place it says "I shall not be moved"
Do you really think that means that the guy will never walk?
Edit: He eventually said that he "draws the line" at saying that the Bible is ever wrong as though to indicate that he agreed with me but because of principle, he is unwilling to actually admit it.
It is not he that needs to admit is is wrong. It is you that needs to admit it is right.
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If the flood happened when laws were different than this present state we know, all bets are off for present state science being able to extrapolate backwards in any meaningful or accurate way. |
18th June 2009, 04:07 AM
| | Mas sabe el diablo por viejo que por diablo.
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Reps: 142,567,785,179,653,616 (power: 142,567,785,179,661) | | Originally Posted by dad No. It was recorded by men. It was written by God. Some of it was Him talking directly. Actual quates from the Almighty. Some were heard by men. Example..'this is my beloved son, in whom I am well pleased'
Other times God actually wrote it Himself. Look at the ten commandments, by the finger of God! No need to blame men.
I do hope that you realize that to quote the Bible to prove that Bible is true is a bit pointless to someone like me. Of course. Do you know what it means? It means that this world ain't going anywhere. It will be here forever. Even after the surface of this planet gets burned with fire, and a new heavens appear. The ball itself will still be here, and made new. It is unmovable. The spirit is required to comprehend what is said, and meant.
[/indent]It is not he that needs to admit is is wrong. It is you that needs to admit it is right.
Here's the meaning of 'immovable' from dictionary.com 1. Incapable of being moved; firmly fixed; fast; -- used of material things; as, an immovable foundatin. Immovable, infixed, and frozen round. --Milton.
2. Steadfast; fixed; unalterable; unchangeable; -- used of the mind or will; as, an immovable purpose, or a man who remain immovable.
3. Not capable of being affected or moved in feeling or by sympathy; unimpressible; impassive. --Dryden.
Or from Strong's Concordance:
It's from the Hebrew mowt meaning: to totter, shake, slip
a) (Qal) to totter, shake, slip
b) (Niphal) to be shaken, be moved, be overthrown
c) (Hiphil) to dislodge, let fall, drop
d) (Hithpael) to be greatly shaken
The word used in the Bible and the word used in the modern translations are all talking about LITERAL and ACTUAL movement. They are saying that the Earth can literally not be shaken, moved, or dislodged. However it does move, shake, and it's definitely not lodged into anything.
So, your interpretation is incorrect. They are talking about literal movement and you're talking equivocating 'immovable' with 'indestructible' or 'eternal' or something else entirely. Strong's and the dictionary do not agree with your interpretation. So, again, how do you interpret this discrepancy? Psalms claims that the Earth cannot be MOVED -- not destroyed, changed from it's path, or anything else -- MOVED, yet it moves.
Last edited by sandwiches; 18th June 2009 at 04:21 AM.
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18th June 2009, 04:11 AM
| | Mas sabe el diablo por viejo que por diablo.
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Reps: 142,567,785,179,653,616 (power: 142,567,785,179,661) | | Originally Posted by dad It is not he that needs to admit is is wrong. It is you that needs to admit it is right.
If he were, I would concede but his arguments were similar to your and I similarly disassembled them. His phrase, " I'll do everything I can to agree with you, but I draw the line at saying the Bible is wrong." indicates that he'll agree with me if he sees the logic or reason in my arguments but that he won't admit that the Bible is wrong even if he agrees with me. | | |
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