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13th June 2009, 01:32 PM
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Reps: 474,698,394,322,854,976 (power: 474,698,394,322,865) | | Originally Posted by gluadys  I don't think there is any great mystery. There are multiple possibilities of actual floods, all of which could give rise to flood stories.
In addition there are multiple possibilities of flood stories being told and re-told in various ways.
If there were as few as five actual floods per continent (on average), there could easily be hundreds of flood stories.
It would be an interesting exercise to try and draw up a family tree of flood stories to see how many different types of flood stories there are and which ones were derived from earlier versions. One might also uncover hybrid versions in which a flood story from one family borrows elements of a flood story from a different family.
(See below comment to Mallon about other natural disasters.) (Have you looked into memes?)
Which memes? L. Ron Hubbard's or Dawkins'? (IOW, the science fiction idea, or the scientific idea? I can barely tell a difference.  ) Originally Posted by Mallon Who says they are coincidences? Most human settlements are located on water of some type. Riverbanks swell and tidal waves break, so it's hardly surprising that there should be so many flood accounts.
(There are also many accounts of earthquakes around the world throughout history. This doesn't mean that at one point, there was a global earthquake.)
That's a good point about people living by water, but I've wondered, are there any near-extinction myths involving earthquake, volcano, fire, tornado, plague, etc.? If the flood stories were based on actual events, they could have been based on various types of events, but they're not various; they all involve water and flooding. Also, could you please provide the wiki article you referred to? Deluge myth - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia |
13th June 2009, 07:30 PM
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Reps: 12,567,898,174,147,644 (power: 12,567,898,174,166) | | Originally Posted by Chesterton (See below comment to Mallon about other natural disasters.)
Which memes? L. Ron Hubbard's or Dawkins'? (IOW, the science fiction idea, or the scientific idea? I can barely tell a difference. )
Dawkin's. I am not familiar with Hubbard's. That's a good point about people living by water, but I've wondered, are there any near-extinction myths involving earthquake, volcano, fire, tornado, plague, etc.? If the flood stories were based on actual events, they could have been based on various types of events, but they're not various; they all involve water and flooding.
As usual the devil's in the details. Of course every flood story involves water. But that doesn't make all the flood stories the same story.
There are many dying-rising god stories too, but that doesn't make the passion story a copy-cat of them.
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13th June 2009, 08:26 PM
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Reps: 474,698,394,322,854,976 (power: 474,698,394,322,865) | | Originally Posted by gluadys As usual the devil's in the details. Of course every flood story involves water. But that doesn't make all the flood stories the same story.
Some stories involve a flood of blood. There are many dying-rising god stories too, but that doesn't make the passion story a copy-cat of them.
I think C.S. Lewis referred to things like that as God sending "good dreams" to different groups. But Dawkins would call them memes I guess. Dreams, memes, I imagine God could get ideas across either way. |
14th June 2009, 05:59 PM
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Reps: 18,889,155,825,852,136 (power: 18,889,155,825,864) | | Originally Posted by Chesterton That's a good point about people living by water, but I've wondered, are there any near-extinction myths involving earthquake, volcano, fire, tornado, plague, etc.?
None that I can think of. I'm not the person to ask, though. If the flood stories were based on actual events, they could have been based on various types of events, but they're not various; they all involve water and flooding.
It strikes me as obvious that all flood stories will have water and flooding in common.
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"There is evidence for evolution, gobs and gobs of it. It is not just speculation or a faith choice or an assumption or a religion. It is a productive framework for lots of biological research, and it has amazing explanatory power. There is no conspiracy to hide the truth about the failure of evolution. There has really been no failure of evolution as a scientific theory. It works, and it works well." -- creation scientist Dr. Todd Wood |
14th June 2009, 07:04 PM
| | Gimme That Old Time Religion
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Reps: 474,698,394,322,854,976 (power: 474,698,394,322,865) | | Originally Posted by Mallon It strikes me as obvious that all flood stories will have water and flooding in common.
Actually some flood stories involve blood instead of water, but yes, I should have said "near-extinction stories" or "re-population stories" to be more accurate.
I should mention that when I made this OP the flood waters being a "type" of baptism (killing the old man and birthing the new man) had slipped my mind. |
22nd June 2009, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Chesterton Is there any chance that what modern science refers to as an extinction event in the past could be the same event referred to in the almost ubiquitous ancient flood stories? I think that there is a good chance that is true. |
22nd June 2009, 10:15 AM
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Reps: 18,889,155,825,852,136 (power: 18,889,155,825,864) | | Originally Posted by Calypsis4 I think that there is a good chance that is true.
Even in the face of all contradictory evidence I just posted? How do you account for all the problems I brought up?
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