Examining Genesis...

Even the cartoons? QV

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Thank goodness for the op ed section.

Originally Posted by crawfish

Thank goodness for the op ed section.

LOL ---

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"But from the beginning of creation, God made them male and female." Mark 10:6 nasb

Jesus quotes Genesis as if it were literal historical fact. Adam and Eve were created in the beginning and not billions of years later.

"..from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who was killed between the altar and the house of God; yes, I tell you, it shall be charged against this generation." Luke 11:51 nasb

The blood of Abel? Is Jesus taking Genesis as literal historical fact again?

Or could it possibly be Jesus was using the holy books of the people and the knowledge they have at the time to explain theological points to them instead of wading thru days, months, years of explaining science that they weren't ready for, had not the tools to test or discover, and which had nothing to do with the points He was trying to make?

Metherion

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Oh, for the love of Pete!

PETE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS!!!!


And, because I won't write anything I'm not willing to attach my name to...

Metherion

"And just as it happened in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man: they were eating, they were drinking, they were marrying, they were being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all." Luke 17:26-27 nasb

I don't believe Jesus would mislead us just to make a point. And you say his quotes have nothing to do with the point he was trying to make, but you are wrong. Why would he bring them up if they had nothing to do with His teachings?

Who said Jesus was trying to explain science? You said it, not me. He quoted Genesis as literal historical fact to make His point. So in effect, He is explaining Genesis too.

But He's not misleading us. He's using tales available to everyone to explain His point. Every Jew old enough to understand the point He was trying to make about marriage knew of the Adam and Eve tale. Note He didn't say "God created them male and female, named the man Adam, and let him name his wife Eve, in the garden of Eden", He said "God created them". MOUNTAIN of difference between the two.

Why would He bring them if if they have nothing to do with His point? They have things to do with His point. They give a point to relate to. A touchstone to relate to to get His point. The OT is part of the Bible, as is the NT. Anyone with access to a full Bible (as opposed to those little books that have only the Gospels or the NT in them) will also have access to these tales.

He's not misleading us any more than Aesop's fables telling us of a race between a rabbit and a hare misleads children. Can hares talk? Can turtles talk? Can they understand the concept of a race? Does that matter to the point of 'slow and steady work will get the job done faster than getting ahead and leaving it alone, sure you'll finish when you need to but not actually accomplishing anything'? No, not really.

The ancients didn't understand a lot about science in a lot of respects. Definitely not a full scale understanding of modern astronomy, cosmology, paleontology, biology, geology, etc. The idea that because Jesus used parts of the Holy Books that HE, being part of the TRUINE GOD, INSPIRED IN THE FIRST PLACE, to get His point across to the very people He'd been inspiring the books to, they must be literally and scientifically true is rather ridiculous. He would know infinitely better than us exactly how they would understand what He gave them. He would know exactly what to say to get them to relate to the lessons He was giving. No?

He did not reference Genesis as literal, historical fact. He used points from Genesis to provide examples of a) teachings on marriage, b) accountability, and c) the state of things upon His return. Nothing about it being literal or historical is necessary for those lessons to reference the Holy Book He'd previous given to the Jews.


Metherion

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Oh, for the love of Pete!

PETE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS!!!!


And, because I won't write anything I'm not willing to attach my name to...

Metherion

I think you may be taking this out of context, Jesus is talking about people and human relationships, not how the earth was created. Was Jesus talking about God making mankind? Or making the planet? He does not even mention the earth in the passage, the whole context is God's plan for humans. That seem to be the way Matthew took it, Matt 19:4 And He answered and said, "Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning made them male and female. Jesus was talking about the beginning of God's creation of the human race, not the planet.

Then there is the question of Jesus quoting Genesis as if it were literal historical fact. Actually he quotes Genesis as if the story of man's creation was meant as a lesson about marriage. That sounds more like an allegorical interpretation to me. Look at the next verse from Genesis that is quoted. Mark 10:7 'Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, 8 and they shall become one flesh.' So they are no longer two but one flesh. What was the one flesh in Genesis? It was Eve being made from Adam rib, 'bone of my bone and flesh of my flesh'. Yet if we take it literally, making Eve from Adam rib is very different a man and wife being joined in sexual union. Yet apparently Eve being one flesh with Adam by being made from his rib is supposed to be seen as a picture of marriage and sex. That is a highly allegorical interpretation of the story of Eve's creation from Adam's rib, yet it is an allegorical interpretation we find in the Genesis account itself, and Jesus himself takes up as does Paul. In fact this allegorical interpretation is probably the most quoted verse from Genesis in the NT.

First century Jews were really going to be held responsible for Cain murdering his brother? Are you sure Jesus is being strictly literal here and not using a bit of hyperbole? In the same passage in Matthew, Jesus also told the scribes and Pharisees they were blind guides who swallowed camels Matt 23:24. Incidentally the way the OT canon was arranged at that time, 2Chronicles which contains the story of Zechariah's martyrdom was at the end of the OT and Genesis was at the beginning, making Abel and Zechariah the equivalent of the A-Z of OT crimes. Jesus was saying the Jews would in the modern phrase 'have the book thrown at them', that they were no different from all the murderous evil they read about in the OT but were rather its ultimate manifestation, the vineyard tenants murdering not just the king's servants but even his son. But he was not speaking literally. To condemn first century Jews for a murder committed long before there were was a nation of Israel would be simply unjust.


Personally I don't have any problem with the flood being a real event, I just think the idea of a global flood is a misinterpretation of a text written at a time when no one had any concept of the world even being a globe. Certainly nothing Jesus says here suggests the flood was global.

Originally Posted by ToxicReboMan

I don't believe Jesus would mislead us just to make a point. And you say his quotes have nothing to do with the point he was trying to make, but you are wrong. Why would he bring them up if they had nothing to do with His teachings?

Have you read the gospels? People misunderstood Jesus all the time. They thought he said they were to practice cannibalism, they thought he said he was going to rebuild the temple in three days. Misunderstanding Jesus goes with being a disciple, we can never assume our misunderstandings must be right because 'Jesus would not mislead us'.


And explained it as an allegorical lesson on marriage and a warnings about judgment.

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