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  #51  
Old 16th July 2009, 08:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Paul1965 View Post
Thanks Andy! That's the verse I was looking for!

"One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind." Romans:14:5

Also:
"It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery. 2Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all. 3Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law." Galatians 5:1-3

"He made no distinction between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. 10Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of the disciples a yoke that neither we nor our fathers have been able to bear? 11No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are." Acts 15:9-11

Above in the passage in Galatians it talks about whether there is an obligation to obey the whole law? Also, In Acts, it talks about a yoke that they and their ancestors were unable to bear. I believe these verses indicate that we are not obligated to obey the whole law, and if we are trying to do so (which is indicated as impossible) we are putting God to the test. Romans 14:5 talks about the different views that people hold regarding days as sacred. I personally view every day as alike. Some view Saturday as holy. Some view Sunday as holy. Should we be divided as brothers and sisters in Christ? I am of the opinion that the New Testament clarifies our obligations as followers of Christ. I'm a bit of a Newbie, and don't profess to know it all. Does it talk about Christ being our rest and that we should enter into His rest? I think I remember reading that? As far as the original question: How Did The Sabbath Day change from the 7th Day to the 1st Day of the week? I saw on a video produced by I believe it was the History Channel, indicated that Constantine change the day of worship to Sunday out of convenience. The day over time was referred to as the Sabbath. I would have to research more to determine between the time of Christ and that of Constantine if a so called Sabbath was something referred to and kept. Many refer to the New Testament in pointing to 7th day Sabbath being kept by the disciples, mainly because of their preaching in synagogues (possibly out of convenience to present the Gospel). Was their practice of rest on the Sabbath kept? Was the practice of rest on the Sabbath continued the first few centuries after Christ? There is writing from Christian leaders from these centuries that may shed some light on this!


Originally Posted by Paul1965 View Post
"One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind." Romans:14:5

Paul is taking about people who do different things on certain days then other people, but its still with in the law, situation where it make no different or do any harm.Paul explain this futher down in Romans 14:19 Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.
14:20 For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.
14:21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.


The example here is about meat and drink, some people eat meat some don't, same thing for drinking, but its all with in the law. Now the sabbath day is a commandment of the lords, if it wasn't for the law there would not be church today, even on the wrong day of the week (sunday).




Originally Posted by Paul1965 View Post
"It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery. 2Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all. 3Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law." Galatians 5:1-3

That first verse is referring to the animal sacrificial law, the second and third verse Paul talks about the circumcism and keeping the whole law.


James tell us to keep the whole law 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

(1John 3:4) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. Now we have just read the biblical definition of sin, the transgression (breaking) of the law (commandments.) It doesnít matter what you or I think sin is, itís what God says sin is that counts.


The whole law consist of keeping the sabbath day the seventh day of the week (saturaday). The law is 23:3 Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings. (leviticus 23:3)

Paul tell us in Romans 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.


These are part of the ten commandment; (see Exodus 20)
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  #52  
Old 16th July 2009, 09:55 PM
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Tanzel, sounds like you are fully convinced! That's good for you! God speed, Brother!
  #53  
Old 18th July 2009, 11:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Paul1965 View Post
Tanzel, sounds like you are fully convinced! That's good for you! God speed, Brother!

peace in jesus name
  #54  
Old 21st July 2009, 03:28 AM
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This is a good thread.
  #55  
Old 21st July 2009, 01:06 PM
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Go into your history books and prove me wrong, I challenge you to do so. Sisters and brothers I pray that you read your bibles for yourselves and pray for understanding. And don’t let some unlearned false preacher deceive you. The Sabbath of the Lord has, and will always be the seventh day of the week (sunset Friday to sunset Saturday) and has not been changed. I know that some will say, well we don’t know if the seventh day in Jesus time is the same seventh day now. Well the bible says: (Mat 28:1) In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre. Now this proves that in Jesus day when the Sabbath (Saturday) ended the first day of the week (Sunday) began. Guess what? In our day when the seventh day ends the first day of the week begins, no change!

Again many professing Christians are willing to acknowledge that the other nine commandments should be kept in some way today, but reject and refuse to literally obey just one commandment, the fourth! So we see that the Sabbath command is a crucial test of obedience, for it identifies those who have surrendered to God and are striving to obey all of His commandments. Even others lacking knowledge will say that we keep the first day of the week because Christ rose on that day or that the apostle Paul broke bread on the first day. No, Christ did not rise on Sunday that is yet another doctrine of the devil and I can prove that out of your bible without a shadow of doubt. And every day that Paul ate he broke bread what does that have to do with the Sabbath day. And as much as people try and make it seem, Paul writings in no way contradicts any writing of Jesus or the other disciple or apostles.

The Lord had Peter to warn you regarding some of the writing of Paul: (2Peter3:15-16) (v.15) "even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;" (v.16) As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. You need to have some pretty good understanding of the entire bible when you start to deal with Paul’s writing or you could get tied in knots. People are always saying "but Paul said" well Paul said this to: (1Cor.1:13) Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul? If you are confused regarding a subject in the bible go and see what your Master (Jesus) has to say about the matter.
  #56  
Old 24th July 2009, 11:42 AM
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Bible

I was recently reading the 1st 4 chapters in Genesis.

I noticed something interesting.

God did NOT say there was morning and evening the 1st day & the following days.

God said "there was evening and morning the first day" & the following days.

Thus the Sabbath would actually be what we now consider the evening of Saturday & the morning of Sunday.
  #57  
Old 24th July 2009, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by iamjcs View Post
I was recently reading the 1st 4 chapters in Genesis.

I noticed something interesting.

God did NOT say there was morning and evening the 1st day & the following days.

God said "there was evening and morning the first day" & the following days.

Thus the Sabbath would actually be what we now consider the evening of Saturday & the morning of Sunday.

You got it wrong....Lets read it over again in Genesis 1:4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.


We all know that the Sabbath day consist of 24 hours, as all days do. However it is important that we understand that the Lord begins the day with the evening, "And God called the light day, and the darkness was called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day." (Gen 1:5). Man begins the day at 12:01 am, so, there is about a six hour difference from sundown (beginning of the day) to midnight. In other words,the seventh day begins Friday at evening, instead of, midnight Friday; thus, the seventh day is sundown Friday to sundown Saturday. As we tend to keeping the whole law of God, we must, also remember to observe the whole day of rest.
  #58  
Old 8th August 2009, 05:17 PM
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locally, there were 2 pastors who stated from the pulpit that the sabbath is friday sundown to saturday sundown just as the Book is written.
one of them was the pastor of a very large(30,000members) methodist church downtown.
then, after admitting/confessing/stating that the sabbath is friday sundown to saturday sundown,
then he said "but we keep sunday because that is more convenient - it is what people are used to, it is man's tradition now."
so, according to the pastor[s] i heard speak,
tradition [for some] trumps the commandment; following man's way is 'more convenient' than following Jesus.
...
i didn't go back.
.
truthseekers are welcome to email me for fellowship/truth.
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  #59  
Old 8th August 2009, 09:33 PM
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Originally Posted by yeshuaslavejeff View Post
locally, there were 2 pastors who stated from the pulpit that the sabbath is friday sundown to saturday sundown just as the Book is written.
one of them was the pastor of a very large(30,000members) methodist church downtown.
then, after admitting/confessing/stating that the sabbath is friday sundown to saturday sundown,
then he said "but we keep sunday because that is more convenient - it is what people are used to, it is man's tradition now."
so, according to the pastor[s] i heard speak,
tradition [for some] trumps the commandment; following man's way is 'more convenient' than following Jesus.
...
i didn't go back.
.
truthseekers are welcome to email me for fellowship/truth.


Originally Posted by yeshuaslavejeff View Post
i didn't go back.
.
truthseekers are welcome to email me for fellowship/truth.

Praise the lord....Jesus said in Matthew 13:16But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.


Originally Posted by yeshuaslavejeff View Post
the past or of a very large(30,000members) methodist church downtown.
then, after admitting/confessing/stating that the sabbath is friday sundown to saturday sundown,
then he said "but we keep sunday because that is more convenient - it is what people are used to, it is man's tradition now."



Jesus said in (Matthew 15:8) This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. 9)But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.


peace in jesus name


  #60  
Old 10th August 2009, 10:44 PM
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Bible Tanzel answer this!!

The Covenant was given/made with the Children of Israel only- Not even their forefathers was given the Law/Covenant of 10 commandments.

The reason gentiles do not "attempt to keep" the 7th Day Sabbath is because it was given to the Children of Israel only. (see Deut 5)

Deut 5: 1-
1: And Moses called all Israel, and said unto them, Hear, O Israel, the statutes and judgments which I speak in your ears this day, that ye may learn them, and keep, and do them.
2: The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.
3: The LORD made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, [even] us, who [are] all of us here alive this day.
6: I [am] the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.


As you can see, this binding covenant was with only those present COI (Children of Israel) at Mt. Sinai and their physical bodily descendants. This is why we do not keep the Sabbath. It was never binding on us. It was a sign between COI and God because He brought them out of Egypt, literally.
Christians, don't be deceived or bewitched as Paul would say, by these Judizers who would put the yoke of bondage on you that they themselves cannot do.

Lev 23:1-7
1: And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
2: Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, [Concerning] the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim [to be] holy convocations, [even] these [are] my feasts:
3: Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day [is] the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work [therein]: it [is] the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings.
4: These [are] the feasts of the LORD, [even] holy convocations, which ye shall proclaim in their seasons.
5: In the fourteenth [day] of the first month at even [is] the LORD'S passover.
6: And on the fifteenth day of the same month [is] the feast of unleavened bread unto the LORD: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread.
7: In the first day ye shall have an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein.


The Lord said these were His feasts and then He (God) names them. Verse 3 includes the 7th Day Sabbath.

Tanzel, since you keep the "whole" Law and obey all that God commanded at Mt. Sinai, Let me ask you this:

Where do you perform your sacrifices? And do you keep all the feast days? Per GOD, the Seventh Day Sabbath is a feast day (see Lev 23)
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