The thing is, if you do a search on every place the word "abomination" occurs, you find one basic message: we are told to refrain from whatever it is.
For me, when you couple this with so many warnings in the New Testament against sexual immorality (of which there are several types), the term itself leads us to sincerely question such behaviors in our own lives.
I don't want to focus only on homosexuality. But, a Christian will deal with sexuality regardless, and the New Testament deals a lot with the type we are to avoid if we are to be followers of Christ.
__________________ He that overcomes, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.Rev. 3:5
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Is it possible for a gay couple to commit to such marital relationship and have God bless such a union?
This must be the saddest aspect of the entire debate. I've met so many, really lovely people, who insist from a very young age they are simply wired differently. How sad for them, I believe. And I just don't want to judge them or worse condemn them for being who they were born to be.
I can't go along with the "it's not the way God created us" when so many babies are born with obviously abnormal conditions, one of which is to be both male and female. Because of this, it is very feasible that some are born wired differently, perhaps even a hormonal, physiologically different leaning.
If this is the case, then I would rather not judge and let God be the final judge. Poor them, though. I try to imagine what it would be like to feel the whole Christian world were against me, just because of who I am.
But, ultimately, I don't know enough to have a say either way.
__________________ But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. Galatians 5:22-23
Those who don't agree with that are leading homosexuals away from forgiveness and straight on the path to hell as the secular world is doing to them.
__________________ He that overcomes, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.Rev. 3:5
My avatar? Heh, my Granddaughter made it for me. How could I not use it? To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
1.0
"abusers of themselves with mankind"
It doesnt get any clearer than that. Regardless of what else is going on the ACT of men being with men sexually is 'shameful'.
For idolatry God gave them over to their perverse desires and vile affections, but vile these affections ARE REGARDLESS of how they came to be !
And also;
The word speaks for itself. Its no wonder Strongs and Thayers both believe this word is about homosexuals...especially given the rest of scripture on the matter.
And here we have the Mosaic Law, GODS law, which forbids men having sex with men like one does a woman.
Perfectly consistent...
2.0 Romans 1:26-27 - Vile Affections
In Romans 1 the state of the persons in Romans there is a RESULT of their idolatry.
BECAUSE of their idolatry God gave them up TO their vile affections...the affections/desires themselves ARE vile/sinful.
One doesnt have to commit idolatry to commit sexual sin, so the connection between the two, while it DOES exist in Romans 1, doesnt necessarily have to exist in EVERY other instance.
In Romans 1:26 above we see that these were turned over to 'vile affections'.
Here are the definitions of these words.
As you can see the usage of each word in the new testament is quite consistent.
These were given over to these vile affections, and what does the scripture show that these 'vile affections' were being defined as ?
It is VERY clear that burning with lust for those of the same gender and acting out on that lust is what this 'vile affection'...otherwise the statement has no meaning.
Homosexuality is a sin and therefore the gay christian needs to abstain from that sin. To WILLFULLY continue in it would seem to lead one into the predicament mentioned in Hebrews 10.
Obviously based on the context of the chapter and the entire book this isnt speaking about merely sinning otherwise we'd ALL be in this position, but very clearly there is some point where our WILLFULL sin shows that we have trampled the Son underfoot and spit in the face of the Spirit of Grace.
3.0
Same passage, different part.
The context is clear enough that men gave up what was natural with the woman and turned to one another in their lusts.
As in my other thread we can easily conclude that while God DID turn them over to this sin seemingly for their idolatries, the ACTS themselves are shown as -unclean
-dishonour
-vile
-unseemly
-error
Here are the definitions of these words (as shown above in red).
These show the overall TONE of the acts these are involved in;
So we see in this part of the passage that God has given them up to this 'uncleaness'.
Regardless of whether they were involved in this act PRIOR to God turning them over to it or not it is quite CLEAR that these acts themselves are all of the things listed above else scripture is quite erroneous to begin with.
These acts being defined as men and woman leaving the natural and lusting after those of the same gender and carrying out those lusts into actions.
__________________ He that overcomes, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.Rev. 3:5
My avatar? Heh, my Granddaughter made it for me. How could I not use it? To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
This must be the saddest aspect of the entire debate. I've met so many, really lovely people, who insist from a very young age they are simply wired differently. How sad for them, I believe. And I just don't want to judge them or worse condemn them for being who they were born to be.
I can't go along with the "it's not the way God created us" when so many babies are born with obviously abnormal conditions, one of which is to be both male and female. Because of this, it is very feasible that some are born wired differently, perhaps even a hormonal, physiologically different leaning.
If this is the case, then I would rather not judge and let God be the final judge. Poor them, though. I try to imagine what it would be like to feel the whole Christian world were against me, just because of who I am.
But, ultimately, I don't know enough to have a say either way.
We were all born in sin and cannot help ourselves which is precisely why Jesus is the only solution to the sin problem.
1 John 1:8, "If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. But if we confess our sins then God is faithful and just to forgive us."
So the real tragedy is that most people are doing everything they can to keep homosexuals from heaven by keeping them from admitting that homosexuality is a sin. In fact, that's one of the biggest tragedies in today's world.
Wycliffe New Testament (1380) - "they that do lechery with men"
KJV (1611) - "abusers of themselves with mankind"
Young's Literal (1862) - "sodomites"
Darby (1890) - "who abuse themselves with men"
American Standard Version (1901) - "abusers of themselves with men"
Amplified Bible (1965) - "Those who participate in homosexuality"
Worldwide English (1969) - "those who commit adultery of any kind"
NASB (1971) - "homosexuals"
NIV (1978) - "homosexual offenders"
NewKJV (1982) - "sodomites"
NCV (1991) - "men who have sexual relations with other men"
CEV (1995) - "one who...behaves like a homosexual"
New Living (1996) - "Those who...practice homosexuality"
21st Century KJV (Third Millennium Bible) (1998) - "abusers of themselves with mankind"
New International Readers Version (1998) - "men...who commit homosexual acts"
NIV - UK (c.1998?) - "homosexual offenders"
ESV (2001) - "men who practice homosexuality"
The Message (2002) - "those who...use and abuse sex"
Holman Christian Standard (2004) - "homosexuals"
Today's NIV (2005) - "practicing homosexuals"
Sodomites definition | Dictionary.com
Sodomite
1. an inhabitant of Sodom. 2. (lowercase) a person who engages in sodomy.
Translation of the word itself from several sources.
__________________ He that overcomes, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.Rev. 3:5
My avatar? Heh, my Granddaughter made it for me. How could I not use it? To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
For me? Because of this, if I were born homosexual, I would probably choose chastity:
18Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body. 19Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; 20you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body. (1 Cor 6:18-20)
But, when I research the scriptures, sexual immorality is grouped with a lot of other behaviors like greed, dissension, arguments, gluttony (are any of us overweight?), slander, and in some cases even evil thoughts are included. In Colossians "whatever belongs to your earthly nature" is included (Col 3:5). In Acts, eating meat of "strangled animals" is mentioned in the same sentence with sexual immorality, and with today's meat-packing techniques, anyone eating meat is committing this sin.
The point is, when I read it all in context, I realize we are all sinning all the time. The only salvation we have is God's grace. So, if someone is born a homosexual, they are no different than we are because the number of sins we commit are countless and just as condemning.
I'm not saying sexual immorality is right. Not at all!! I'm just saying that the Christian message can't be about not committing the sin, it has to be about how wide and complete God's grace is, how sufficient it is for everyone's salvation, not just a particular few.
And for the believer, the message on sin is comprehensive! If we are believers, even arguments, slander, greed (how many of us have invested in the stock market, or given tithes with the desire to gain material wealth?), lying, and even our thoughts condemn us not because God's grace is not sufficient, but because all sin (not just homosexuality) leads to death!!
__________________ But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. Galatians 5:22-23
I used to be a cigarette smoking beer swizzling alcoholic.
I knew Jesus died for my sins and I prayed for forgiveness, but I would not give up my life style. I found love for myself when I was drunk. When I was drunk I was alive, I was right, I was strong, and I was somebody!
If someone would have come along and told me, "Tim, God made you that way for a reason and He loves you just like you are and don't worry about what others say." I doubt I would have believed them but if I did... would I have been right with God?
There is more in scripture against sexual sin than about drunkenness. I thank God I was never convinced it was ok to be that way. I lived it for 25 years and never thought I would or could change, but I thank God every day that my family never sat back and accepted it.
I believe when I was liveing like that I was an abomination to the Lord.
For me? Because of this, if I were born homosexual, I would probably choose chastity:
But, when I research the scriptures, sexual immorality is grouped with a lot of other behaviors like greed, dissension, arguments, gluttony (are any of us overweight?), slander, and in some cases even evil thoughts are included. In Colossians "whatever belongs to your earthly nature" is included (Col 3:5). In Acts, eating meat of "strangled animals" is mentioned in the same sentence with sexual immorality, and with today's meat-packing techniques, anyone eating meat is committing this sin.
The point is, when I read it all in context, I realize we are all sinning all the time. The only salvation we have is God's grace. So, if someone is born a homosexual, they are no different than we are because the number of sins we commit are countless and just as condemning.
I'm not saying sexual immorality is right. Not at all!! I'm just saying that the Christian message can't be about not committing the sin, it has to be about how wide and complete God's grace is, how sufficient it is for everyone's salvation, not just a particular few.
And for the believer, the message on sin is comprehensive! If we are believers, even arguments, slander, greed (how many of us have invested in the stock market, or given tithes with the desire to gain material wealth?), lying, and even our thoughts condemn us not because God's grace is not sufficient, but because all sin (not just homosexuality) leads to death!!
Actually, it's both. The bible doesn't give us a license to keep sinning just because we're forgiven. So as 1 John 3:18 says, "No one born of God will continue to sin because God's seed remains in him; indeed he cannot go on sinning."
That means that the direction of born again Christians is away from sin, not towards sin because as Philippians 2:13 explains, "for it is God who works in you to will and act according to His purpose." But those who do not have the seed (Holy Spirit), can only keep responding out of their sinful nature.
) a person who engages in sodomy.
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