Origins TheologyForum for the discussion of Creation Science (Young/Old) vs Theistic Evolution. Discussion of Atheistic Evolution should be taken to the Discussion and Debate forums.
In that case, no, Collins is not a neocreationist.
Ok, so where did you hear this? A review? Word of mouth? At the university water cooler?
A review online. Might have been over at Panda's Thumb.
Do you believe there are gaps in our scientific knowledge that will never be filled?
Certainly. But I don't think filling them with reference to miracles in the meantime is a responsible thing to do. Many Christians have fallen away from the faith once they come to learn that phenomenon X has a totally natural explanation.
Ridicule is not holding a difference of opinion.
So I'm curious: Which biology textbooks do you feel ridicule faith? I teach biology labs, so I'm curious to know whether we use any of the texts you are referring to.
__________________ We can allow satellites, planets, suns, universe, nay whole systems of universes, to be governed by laws, but the smallest insect, we wish to be created at once by special act.
In that case, no, Collins is not a neocreationist.
Ok, so why did you even bring up neocreationists? You heard Collins is like the neocreationists in some form? Seems a fairer question for you to ask would have been if Collins had any gap arguments as you describe and then left the whole neocreationist thing out of the discussion.
A review online. Might have been over at Panda's Thumb.
But I don't think filling them with reference to miracles in the meantime is a responsible thing to do.
In the meantime? How can there be a meantime if we will never know? The responsible thing to do is let the evidence speak for itself. A lack of evidence is a form of evidence as well.
Many Christians have fallen away from the faith once they come to learn that phenomenon X has a totally natural explanation.
... and Christians have not fallen away once they came to learn that phenomenon X has a totally natural explanation. Christians have fallen away when they were told/taught/indoctrinated that for all X there is a materialistic explanation. Christian maturity is nothing less then learning the truth where ever it leads.
So I'm curious: Which biology textbooks do you feel ridicule faith? I teach biology labs, so I'm curious to know whether we use any of the texts you are referring to.
I have watched many videos of Collins presenting on the same information in his book and I have read his books. He himself has said that people label him sometimes as using a "god of the gaps."
God of the gaps meaning placing God where we don't currently have a natural or scientific explanation for (like saying God makes the flowers bloom because we don't know how).
Collins gets accused of this a small bit due to him pointing to the mathematical constants that must remain for our universe to result in Intelligent life like us. He -suggests- that might support a God initiating it.
Now I don't agree with Collins on everything but this is my take on it. What he posits is in fact considered a gap, he is placing God in that gap. The difference between Collins and many others (despite him being very credible and respected in a scientific field lol) is that he doesn't -require- God to be in the gaps. He is simply suggesting that God might be in that gap.
So I would say Collins is putting God in a gap but he does not support a "God of the gaps" set of beliefs and ideas. He himself said (in one of his videos) that even if we explained this it wouldn't challenge his faith in God.
"God of the gaps" is a faith in God being in that gap, this is not the case with Collins so I think it's a faulty argument. He simply is sharing a belief (that he isn't dependent on being accurate to have faith in God).
__________________ We can allow satellites, planets, suns, universe, nay whole systems of universes, to be governed by laws, but the smallest insect, we wish to be created at once by special act.
I accept evolution and an old earth as true. I don't have a problem with you if you disagree with me, but that's not the point of my post, so please hold your persuasion for another thread.
I have several friends, though, who are YECs. I was wondering if anyone knew of a good book (or books) that gives a wholly Christian perspective on evolution and an old earth.
What I've seen a lot of in books on this subject include:
Non-Christian or mixed-faith perspectives (Christian Buddhism, Unitarian Universalist, etc) that are not grounded in Scripture.
Disrespectful attitudes (Perhaps entertaining for an evolutionist to read, but such attitudes are not about to convince someone from the other tent).
Copious amounts of verbosity (400+ pages of Biblical commentary, analysis, and opinions).
I'd like to find a book that is reasonably short (200 pages or less, if possible), contains a respectful attitude toward YECs, and uses Biblically based arguments (in addition to solid science) to show how evolution and an old earth are true.
Does such a book exist?
Thank you in advance!
Scott
There is a good but short booklet on the issue put out by RBC Ministry's Discovery Series booklets. You can go to their website and search for it under Contemporary Issues but I can't link you to it as I don't have enough posts.
I've just finished reading "A Biblical Case for an Old Earth" by David Snoke. It doesn't fulfil all your criteria as Snoke is a day age old earth creationist so disagrees with evolution. However he does make some good arguments against a YEC interpretation of the Bible. The book is under 200 pages (excluding the appendix) and I found it very readable. As this book focuses more on the biblical side of things rather than the scientific side of things it would be a useful started for introducing your YEC friends to an old earth interpretation.
The blurb on the back cover:
"Respected physicist and professor Dr David Snoke argues that the Bible does tell us about the scientific history of our world, but it does not teach that the world was created recently. He offers a compelling biblical case that the young-earth position is theologically flawed.
Drawing out the deeper themes of Scripture often lost in modern discussion. Snoke shows how the biblical texts as well as modern scientific discoverites are better explained by a day-age model. He arguesthat the earth is millions of years old - and created miraculously by God.
Anyone interested in how science and fatih relate and what the Bible says about the age of the earth will appreciate this readable, biblicall grounded explanation of old-earth creationism"
"The Language of God" by Francis Collins
"God and the Biologist" by R J Berry
"Finding Darwin's God" by Kenneth Miller
and "Worlds Apart: The Unholy War Between Religion & Science" by Karl Giberson.
"A Biblical Case For An Old Earth" by David Snoke is a good book from an "old earth special creationist" perspective; I don't agree with everything he says, but he argues logically from both science and scripture.
Other worthwhile books might include:
"The Dance Between Science and Faith" by Nick Hawkes
"Creation or Evolution: Do We Have to Choose?" by Denis Alexander
and "Evolution and Christian Faith" by Joan Roughgarden
I've just finished reading "A Biblical Case for an Old Earth" by David Snoke. It doesn't fulfil all your criteria as Snoke is a day age old earth creationist so disagrees with evolution. However he does make some good arguments against a YEC interpretation of the Bible. The book is under 200 pages (excluding the appendix) and I found it very readable. As this book focuses more on the biblical side of things rather than the scientific side of things it would be a useful started for introducing your YEC friends to an old earth interpretation.
The blurb on the back cover:
"Respected physicist and professor Dr David Snoke argues that the Bible does tell us about the scientific history of our world, but it does not teach that the world was created recently. He offers a compelling biblical case that the young-earth position is theologically flawed.
Drawing out the deeper themes of Scripture often lost in modern discussion. Snoke shows how the biblical texts as well as modern scientific discoverites are better explained by a day-age model. He arguesthat the earth is millions of years old - and created miraculously by God.
Anyone interested in how science and fatih relate and what the Bible says about the age of the earth will appreciate this readable, biblicall grounded explanation of old-earth creationism"
I agree that Snoke's book is a good choice to lend to YEC's who are ready to consider alternative perspectives. I also found this book easy to read, and while not agreeing with all of his conclusions, his biblical arguments were as compelling as his scientific ones.
Linear Mode
