Can anyone walk away from their Salvation?

peace4ever,
Replies are easy when you avoid the biblical evidence I provided of falling away from salvation.

Joh 10:27"My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;
Joh 10:28and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.
Joh 10:29"My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.
Joh 10:30"I and the Father are one." NASB



Thank God it is not by my ability I am saved nor is it by my ability that I remain in Him.

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Mont974X4,
You provide these verses to refute my claim that Christians can fall away from the faith, but you omit to make this kind of observation: John 10:28 is conditional on John 10:27, where our security is guaranteed as long as we "continue to hear" his voice and "continue to follow" Him. He "continues to know"them.

How do I know that this interpretation is correct? The Greek language in v. 27 is the present tense for "hear", "follow" and "know." This means continuous action. Eternal security is guaranteed only for those who continue to hear and continue to follow Him. Then he will continue to know them. It is perseverance of the saints in the Christian life that determines eternal security.

There is no eternal security for those who fall away. We know that from the Bible.

You avoid passages such as these:

"For it is impossible to restore again to repentance those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they then fall away, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt. For land that has drunk the rain that often falls on it, and produces a crop useful to those for whose sake it is cultivated, receives a blessing from God. But if it bears thorns and thistles, it is worthless and near to being cursed, and its end is to be burned" (Hebrews 6:4-8 ESV).

John 15:1-6
In this metaphor of the true vine, the gardener and the branches, Jesus stated, "Every branch of mine that does not bear fruit he takes away" (v. 2) and that the branches are to "abide in me, and I in you" (v. 4). "If anyone does not abide in me he is thrown away like a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned" (v. 6)
This passage provides a wonderful picture of the believers union with Christ. We need to note the Greek tenses for the use of "abide" (ESV, Gk. meno) and the immediate context in this passage. These are:

¨"Abide in me" (v.4) - a constative aorist imperative, which "may regard the action [to abide] in its entirety" (Dana & Mantey, 1927/1955, p. 194; Robertson,1932, p. 258).
¨"Unless it abides in the vine" (v. 4). Present tense, continuous action, i.e. continues to abide.
¨"Unless you abide in me" (v. 4). Present tense, continuous action.
¨"Whoever abides in me and I in him" (v. 5). Present tense, continuous action.
¨"If anyone does not abide in me" (v. 6), Present tense, continuous action.
The interpretation is straightforward. We, in union with Christ, are commanded to abide (remain) in union with Christ and that will continue as long as we continue to abide in Him. This is not speaking of a Christian who is commanded to abide in Christ as an instant action and that guarantees one's eternal state. The eternal salvation state is guaranteed only as long as the believer continues to abide/remain in union with Christ.

John 3:15-16, 36; 5:24; 6:35, 40, 64; 10:27-28
Almost all of these verses demonstrate the conditional nature of salvation by use of the present tense in Greek, stating that continuing to believe is the condition required for eternal life to be experienced.

I Tim. 1:18-20 continues this theme. In v. 19, it is Timothy "having (present participle, continuing to have) faith and a good conscience" who has salvation. Then Paul gives the examples of those who "have made shipwreck of their faith" (v. 19), naming Hymenaeus and Alexander (v. 20). What is the guard against a shipwrecked faith of apostasy? Continuing faith!

By avoiding the above emphases, you promote an eternal security doctrine that does not consider the totality of what Scripture is saying.

So you don't believe that a good tree can't bear bad fruit. Is that correct? Salvation belongs to the Lord, not to us. It's Jesus who saves. And since it doesn't depend on anything that we do either, then one cannot lose something that he didn't earn or doesn't belong to him.

Scripture doesn't contradict itself. So the verses you quoted do not contradict the verses I quoted. As I already explained, the verses you quoted are addressed to the first 3 kinds of people in the parable of the sower who have no root. So my interpretation contradicts zero scripture and your interpretation contradicts the scriptures I quoted.

It is strange how some churches may teach sola scriptura but ignore what the scripture says about Christians falling away.

Paul was continuously warning against this in his letters. If it couldn't happen then he wouldn't have bothered.

He says in Galatians 5:


1 For freedom Christ set us free; so stand firm and do not submit again to the yoke of slavery. 2 It is I, Paul, who am telling you that if you have yourselves circumcised, Christ will be of no benefit to you. 3 Once again I declare to every man who has himself circumcised that he is bound to observe the entire law. 4 You are separated from Christ, you who are trying to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. 5 For through the Spirit, by faith, we await the hope of righteousness. 6 For in Christ Jesus, neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but only faith working through love. 7 You were running well; who hindered you from following (the) truth?Paul says in Philippians 3:12 It is not that I have already taken hold of it or have already attained perfect maturity, but I continue my pursuit in hope that I may possess it, since I have indeed been taken possession of by Christ (Jesus). 13 Brothers, I for my part do not consider myself to have taken possession. Just one thing: forgetting what lies behind but straining forward to what lies ahead, 14 I continue my pursuit toward the goal, the prize of God's upward calling, in Christ Jesus. 15 Let us, then, who are "perfectly mature" adopt this attitude. And if you have a different attitude, this too God will reveal to you.
Paul tells us of two Christians who had fallen away in 1 and 2 Timothy.
1 Tim. 1:
18 I entrust this charge to you, Timothy, my child, in accordance with the prophetic words once spoken about you. Through them may you fight a good fight 19 by having faith and a good conscience. Some, by rejecting conscience, have made a shipwreck of their faith, 20 among them Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan to be taught not to blaspheme.2 Tim. 2:
16 Avoid profane, idle talk, for such people will become more and more godless, 17 and their teaching will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, 18 who have deviated from the truth by saying that (the) resurrection has already taken place and are upsetting the faith of some.He also tells Timothy:
1 Tim. 4:1 Now the Spirit explicitly says that in the last times some will turn away from the faith by paying attention to deceitful spirits and demonic instructionsPaul also tells of those that left him.
2 Tim. 4:10 for Demas, enamored of the present world, deserted me and went to ThessalonicaAnd as someone has already posted:
Hebrews 6:
4 For it is impossible in the case of those who have once been enlightened and tasted the heavenly gift and shared in the holy Spirit 5 and tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 and then have fallen away, to bring them to repentance again, since they are recrucifying the Son of God for themselves and holding him up to contempt.Again from Hebrews 12:25 See that you do not reject the one who speaks. For if they did not escape when they refused the one who warned them on earth, how much more in our case if we turn away from the one who warns from heaven.

Peter says in his 2nd book: 2:
20 For if they, having escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of (our) Lord and savior Jesus Christ, again become entangled and overcome by them, their last condition is worse than their first. 21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment handed down to them.Jesus says in Rev. 2:10 Do not be afraid of anything that you are going to suffer. Indeed, the devil will throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and you will face an ordeal for ten days. Remain faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.
This also what Paul warned the Churches about.
We should never allow pride to make us believe that we cannot choose to follow a direction which leads us away from Jesus. We must be alert at all times and humble ourselves to remain in God's Spirit.

Sorry but you're making those verses contradict:

Romans 8:1
Romans 8:38
1 Corinthians 1:8
John 10:28
Jude 24
Philippians 2:13
Romans 8:5-9
1 john 3:10
1 John 5:18
1 John 4:4

And many more verses. Since scripture does not contradict other scripture, then your interpretation of the verses you quoted is incorrect.

If you're interested in interpretations that do not contradict other scripture, then please let me know and I will show you how to reconcile scripture together. Otherwise, if you don't read other people's posts, then I will not even attempt to show you.

peace4ever,
Don't you believe verses such as "(you) believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved, you and your household" (Acts. 16:31)?

Put that together with the verses I quoted previously and; John 15:16 Romans 9:16-18, Ephesians 2:8-9, Matthew 11;25-29 1 Corinthians 2:14, and Romans 3:11 and you get; No one chooses or seeks God of his own free will. God does the choosing by giving His Holy Spirit to those to whom it pleases Him.

1) That since salvation isn't by works, then losing our salvation can't be by works either.
2) That Salvation doesn't depend on works but on God's soverigen choice
3) That only the power of the Holy Spirit can make us a new creation
4) that man has no free will.

So put the above verses together with Acts 16:31 and you get, you will be saved if you believe in the Lord Jesus. But the rest of the bible tells who gives us the power to believe; and it's not our sinful nature. It's by God's sovereign choice in election as Romans 9:11 explains. Romans 11:29 "Gods gifts and His call are irrevocable." They can't be reversed as all of scripture says.

Since I'm sure you know we don't have a contradictory God, then instead of interpreting the bible to contradict the verses I quoted, I'm sure you would be happy to start reconciling verses together to make them agree with each other rather than contradict the verses I gave you. Then your interpretation will be correct.

You show the dangers of someone who reads without using the whole context of scripture.
Hence, now there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
This shows nothing about those that chose to leave Christ, only those who remain humble to him.
I'll add verse 39 to complete the thought of your example.
38 For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor present things, nor future things, nor powers, 39 nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.Again, this says nothing about those choosing to walk away from their salvation.
5 For those who live according to the flesh are concerned with the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the spirit with the things of the spirit. 6 The concern of the flesh is death, but the concern of the spirit is life and peace. 7 For the concern of the flesh is hostility toward God; it does not submit to the law of God, nor can it; 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But you are not in the flesh; on the contrary, you are in the spirit, if only the Spirit of God dwells in you. Whoever does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to himWhere may I ask does this say that you cannot walk away after receiving God's Spirit? In this same chapter we see Paul talking about the Law.
2 For the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus has freed you from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law, weakened by the flesh, was powerless to do, this God has done: by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for the sake of sin, he condemned sin in the flesh,The law of sin and death is the Mosaic Law, yet we see this very same Paul saying that it is possible to walked away from Christ back to the Law. I also gave you places where people had walked away in my last post.

Gal. 5:2 It is I, Paul, who am telling you that if you have yourselves circumcised, Christ will be of no benefit to you. 3 Once again I declare to every man who has himself circumcised that he is bound to observe the entire law. 4 You are separated from Christ, you who are trying to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. This shows the danger of taking one line out of context. Paul's letters must be read and understood using all his letters and not taking pieces and rejecting others.
8 He will keep you firm to the end, irreproachable on the day of our Lord Jesus (Christ)Will he if we remain faithful? Most certainly, but what of those who don't? Did all of the Corinthians remain faithful? Why was Paul and later Clement continually trying to correct them?

Just after this line he goes about talking about them falling into trouble.
10 I urge you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree in what you say, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and in the same purpose. 11 For it has been reported to me about you, my brothers, by Chloe's people, that there are rivalries among you.3:2-32 I fed you milk, not solid food, because you were unable to take it. Indeed, you are still not able, even now, 3 for you are still of the flesh. While there is jealousy and rivalry among you, are you not of the flesh, and behaving in an ordinary human way?5:1-2-5&131 It is widely reported that there is immorality among you, and immorality of a kind not found even among pagans--a man living with his father's wife. 2 And you are inflated with pride. Should you not rather have been sorrowful? The one who did this deed should be expelled from your midst.5 you are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord.13 God will judge those outside. "Purge the evil person from your midst."11:29-3129 For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body, eats and drinks judgment on himself. 30 That is why many among you are ill and infirm, and a considerable number are dying. 31 If we discerned ourselves, we would not be under judgment; 28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish. No one can take them out of my hand.Yes, Jesus gives eternal life to those who remain faithful. Who here can absolutely claim that they will never fail? Do you make the same prideful claim that Peter made? If you do, pray that Jesus humbles you as he did Peter so that you remain humble.

24 To the one who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you unblemished and exultant, in the presence of his glory,Yes, Christ is able to keep us from stumbling but we must remain humble in our faith. When pride creeps in we can turn away from Jesus and trust ourselves.
Jude 21-2221 Keep yourselves in the love of God and wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ that leads to eternal life. 22 On those who waver, have mercy; 13 For God is the one who, for his good purpose, works in you both to desire and to work.Let's add what else he said.
12 So then, my beloved, obedient as you have always been, not only when I am present but all the more now when I am absent, work out your salvation with fear and trembling. 13 For God is the one who, for his good purpose, works in you both to desire and to work. 14 Do everything without grumbling or questioning, 15 [b]that you may be blameless and innocent[b], children of God without blemish in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you shine like lights in the world, 16 as you hold on to the word of life, so that my boast for the day of Christ may be that I did not run in vain or labor in vain.Where does Paul say, "Don't worry about things because God will make sure your keep your salvation"? No he pleads for them to keep working out their salvation with fear and trembling.

3 Everyone who has this hope based on him makes himself pure, as he is pure. 18 We know that no one begotten by God sins; but the one begotten by God he protects, and the evil one cannot touch him.
Do you sin?
4 You belong to God, children, and you have conquered them, for the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world.Yes, Jesus is greater than the one in the world, but how strong is the faith of each person? Nowhere in these verses does it say that we cannot choose to walk away, yet in the verses that I gave you in my other post, it says that we can.

3 John 9 I wrote to the church, but Diotrephes, who loves to dominate, does not acknowledge us. 10 Therefore, if I come, I will draw attention to what he is doing, spreading evil nonsense about us. And not content with that, he will not receive the brothers, hindering those who wish to do so and expelling them from the church. 11 Beloved, do not imitate evil but imitate good. Whoever does what is good is of God; whoever does what is evil has never seen God. 12 Demetrius receives a good report from all, even from the truth itself. We give our testimonial as well, and you know our testimony is true.What occurred to Demetrius?

I agree that scripture does not contradict itself but the one who is contradicting scripture is you. The verses that you give say nothing about the Christian who chooses to turn away from God 's grace but the verses that I gave did. A Christian who remains humble and lives in the Spirit of God will win the race. The Christian who chooses to forsake his salvation can do so.
I will be glad to read what you or anyone else choose to put out there but I also ask you to read what I wrote and reconcile that. You have not done so.

May God help us all to know the truth
Yarddog

Why would anyone choose hell over heaven if he knows that heaven exists? So your interpretation doesn't even make sense!

Sorry but again, I already reconciled that with other scripture which you either didn't read or completely ignored. But you haven't reconciled that with any of the verses I quoted including: Romans 8:1, 8:38, John 10:28, Jude 24 1 Corinthians 1:8, most of Galatians and most of the NT!

But since you don't appear to want to reconcile scipture together then you don't need the cross since you claim that your salvation is by works, not by Christ's sacrifice for our sins. That means that you'll be up a creek without a paddle on judgment day since if you stumble just once, you are guilty of breaking the whole law as James 2:10 tells us. And since none of us is as sinless as God, nor ever can be, then I'm afraid your fate doesn't look very good right now. But that's what happens when someone wants to make God contradict himself. There is thus, nothing more anyone can do for you until you understand that what makes us blameless is Christ's blood, not our sinless nature. That's what it means to come Jesus for rest from our own work. "A good tree cannot bear bad fruit and that is a fact. So I'm not even going to converse with you until you reconcile all scripture together.