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12th June 2009, 05:17 PM
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Reps: 3,034,786,959,142,629,888 (power: 3,034,786,959,142,699) | | Originally Posted by peace4ever  You were making claims about Paul when you have no knowledge that what he's saying is even true! So since you have no clue where to find God's words, then you can't know who God is and thus are not qualified to discuss whether the bible is from God or not! So since you admit you don't know where to find God's words, you'd be better off if you'd listen and ask questions of those who do so you can speak from knowledge rather than ignorance of who God is. So our conversations are at an end.
I don't begin to understand this post.
However, I have studied the bible extensively... which words did you want? I can probably locate them for you.
I don't entirely 'know who God is', I don't think any human can ever fully comprehend Him. But I know enough to love Him 
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12th June 2009, 06:11 PM
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Reps: 462,794,282,735,194,176 (power: 462,794,282,735,214) | | Originally Posted by Nadiine Youre post earlier stated that ONLY anal sex is the sin -
I gave the biblical text as to why it's sin to act on any lust - not
just the anal sex alone.
It was lying down with the same sex for sexuality (that means
of any kind - it didn't limit it to sodomy at all)
I was correcting your claim about homosexuality being condemned when I made the comment about anal sex and it has nothing to do with what the difference is between homosexual sex and homosexuality. Again, what is the difference? State it.
I have no clue what point you're trying to make here, if you have
one, maybe you should just say it clearly instead.
Then follow along and answer the question.
Do me a favor, ask the people who MAKE those threads ok?
You won't find ONE of them with my name as the OP.
Am I singling you out, or am I making a general comment for all self-proclaiming Christians on this message board?
Most of them are people supporting it (which oddly, we get blamed
for as if it's OUR obsession), or asking why people support
it - or using it to troll with or using as an attn. grabber for whatever
purpose.
Gee, they claim to be Christian, and so do we. What's the diff?
& frankly, I'm sick to death of this accusation anymore- since I see YOU here with all your input on homosexuality just like everyone else.... it makes you just as guilty of what you're trying to accuse us of, doesn't it? 
No, not really. See, my input isn't the typical 'homosexual sex is sin, stop shoving propaganda down our throats and stop indoctrinating our children', it's aimed at the people who proclaim such messages because it hurts the image of the body of Christ- our reputation. And I'm not singling you out, that's why I said 'we', not 'you'. We, as Christians, collectively.
If you have an issue, go to SOURCE, don't attack those who refute the people supporting homosexuality.
By the by, the people here aren't just supporting people who are
gay but don't act on it - they're supporting the SEX along with
it too - and apparently the fornication as well.
I don't care. What they do is their business, not yours or mine.
Why you continue to go after the people who are doing what
scripture tells us to do is far beyond my understanding GC -
but since we can't get into personal issues, I'm not going to
elaborate further.
And what does Scripture tell us to do? Bash those who favor gay rights? Vehemently defend the Bible as the sole source of morality in America even though most Americans don't respect it as their sole source of morality? No, it has us love others, give respect, and make disciples. We cannot do that while being abrasive.
You stated to us YOUR opinion too, didn't you? What red herring?
Your statements here are as much an "opinion" as what you claim
ours is. It's entirely relevant.
Maybe the point was correct so you'de like deflect that fact.
I originally said:
We should be witnessing to those God has given us to witness to, not singling out certain groups to 'witness' to by shoving our ideas of morality down their throats. Relaying the truth about moral depravity shouldn't just be done, it needs the proper context, and that is what we as Christians should be giving to it rather than brazenly airing our opinions.
You responded with:
This isn't OUR idea of morality either, it's written and spelled out
clearly in both testaments. If you consider moral sin to be simply
a matter of personal opinion, then you shouldn't be bothering to
witness anything about it either way since it's mere opinion
with no support from God either way.
The idea that the Bible is the sole source of morality for America is indeed a man-made idea. It's not found in the Bible anywhere.
nice ad hom there GC. Looks like I didn't need to elaborate on any
thing personal above, your statement does it for me. 
thanks 
How is pointing out that you are stating a blatantly obvious fact an ad hominem attack?
First off, it's not OK for ANYBODY - not just "Christians"
Secondly this thread (as per the OP's statement) isn't actually
about gay marriage, but the FOCUS on it rather than what Christians
should be focusing on which is charity and other services to
the poor & needy.
I don't care. The thread says 'gay marriage', and we continued talking about why gay marriage should or should not be legal, so what I'm posting is entirely relevant. You've still not answered my requests for sources to back your claims about how allowing gay marriage harms families at all, and that's also entirely relevant to this discussion.
__________________ Originally Posted by CaliforniaJosiah
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dir="ltr"> "Offense" is something TAKEN. No one MAKES anyone feel anything. IF we are offended by something, we CHOSE to be offended by it...
But I think that OFTEN, people confuse discussion with fighting. Disagreeing is not personal, it is not an attack, it is not disrespectful or flaming, it is not offensive per se. It ONLY means, "I disagree." Nothing more. Nothing less. It suggests NO emotional response whatsoever.
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12th June 2009, 11:15 PM
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Reps: 162,057,471,836 (power: 162,057,479) | | | I'm sure it won't do any good to explain how homosexual marriages harm families because those who want homosexuals to put their lust above God and everyone else so they can go to hell will just deny it anyway. Nevertheless, I'll explain how families are harmed even though most people don't care:
1) They create families where no one in the family is related to each other and don't know their ancestors
2) Children of homosexual marriages have no clue what a husband and wife are and what each represents because it's arbitrary between each homosexual couple
3) Children of a homosexual marriage have only one gender role model so they have no clue how a man and a woman are to treat each other in an intimate relationship
4) Children of a homosexual marriage are programmed to believe that sex between people of the same sex is what they're supposed to do as adults since children look up to their parents.
5) Children of a homosexual marriage who have any inclinations toward homosexuality are thus given a license to experiment as adults when they wouldn't do so if society didn't embrace homosexuality. So homosexuality will keep increasing with each generation
6) Children of a homosexual marriage have zero ideas about what boundaries are between people since sex is the main reason that their parents want to be together in the first place. If the homosexual parents simply wanted to live together as room-mates, then there's no need for them to "marry" each other in the first place.
7)Children of homosexual marriages will thus grow up, not knowing how to relate to people of their own gender since they think it's okay to be sexually intimate with anyone.
8) Children of a homosexual marriage have no clue what a mother and father are or what each represents since the "mother" and "father are arbitrary between each couple. So who they call their mother and who they call their father becomes so confusing to them that it alienates them in society and causes irrevocable confusion about what parents are supposed to do and be.
For starters. Thus, homosexual marriage cause irreversible damage and confusion to the children in those families which creates even more confused people for the next generation. And all that damage just so two people can act on their lust. There can hardly be few things more selfish.
Last edited by peace4ever; 12th June 2009 at 11:21 PM.
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13th June 2009, 01:01 AM
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Reps: 432,103,090 (power: 432,107) | | Originally Posted by peace4ever I'm sure it won't do any good to explain how homosexual marriages harm families because those who want homosexuals to put their lust above God and everyone else so they can go to hell will just deny it anyway. Nevertheless, I'll explain how families are harmed even though most people don't care:
1) They create families where no one in the family is related to each other and don't know their ancestors I'm lost at this. you imply that all straights know their ancestors? is there a mystical knowledge for straight couples once they are married? or are you suppose to only marry within relatives? Originally Posted by peace4ever 2) Children of homosexual marriages have no clue what a husband and wife are and what each represents because it's arbitrary between each homosexual couple you are right, hence are you suggesting to ban all divorce and single family? Originally Posted by peace4ever 3) Children of a homosexual marriage have only one gender role model so they have no clue how a man and a woman are to treat each other in an intimate relationship how many parents you know teach their children how opposite sexes intimate relationship? besides hugging and kissing, everything else they learn in school Originally Posted by peace4ever 4) Children of a homosexual marriage are programmed to believe that sex between people of the same sex is what they're supposed to do as adults since children look up to their parents. I'm totally amazed at this statement, are you "programmed" by your parents to have straight sex? If that's true, then why can't straight marriages "programmed" their kids so they won't turn gay? And please throw in a no divorce program to the bundle too. Originally Posted by peace4ever 5) Children of a homosexual marriage who have any inclinations toward homosexuality are thus given a license to experiment as adults when they wouldn't do so if society didn't embrace homosexuality. So homosexuality will keep increasing with each generation of cause, if christians can show society how to increase in hate and discrimination, then maybe they will stop. Originally Posted by peace4ever 6) Children of a homosexual marriage have zero ideas about what boundaries are between people since sex is the main reason that their parents want to be together in the first place. If the homosexual parents simply wanted to live together as room-mates, then there's no need for them to "marry" each other in the first place. The issue here is you think gay marriage is "nothing but sex". But you know it's not true, for sex is not the goal for marriage, it's love. For when you see "gay" you see "sex". I bet you never equate gay = love.
hence you think children in such marriage will only learn gay sex. Is straight marriage all about straight sex? and kids learn nothing but having straight sex? Do you even know one gay person in your life? let along a child grow up in it? Originally Posted by peace4ever 7)Children of homosexual marriages will thus grow up, not knowing how to relate to people of their own gender since they think it's okay to be sexually intimate with anyone. you might even use this statements on all kids grow up with only single parent. When will the thread to push an end to single parents? Originally Posted by peace4ever 8) Children of a homosexual marriage have no clue what a mother and father are or what each represents since the "mother" and "father are arbitrary between each couple. So who they call their mother and who they call their father becomes so confusing to them that it alienates them in society and causes irrevocable confusion about what parents are supposed to do and be. you make straight marriages sound so magical that I wonder why so many families have divorce, even in church. Originally Posted by peace4ever For starters. Thus, homosexual marriage cause irreversible damage and confusion to the children in those families which creates even more confused people for the next generation. And all that damage just so two people can act on their lust. There can hardly be few things more selfish. Lust don't bring people into marriage. if they do, how do you stop straight couples having lustful marriage?
Many people walk down the path of self destruction looking like flaming angles, for they remove all charity that Christ has given them and pour bitterness out in the name of righteousness. They know not the love of God for their life gives out no such love. |
13th June 2009, 12:12 PM
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Reps: 462,794,282,735,194,176 (power: 462,794,282,735,214) | | Originally Posted by peace4ever I'm sure it won't do any good to explain how homosexual marriages harm families because those who want homosexuals to put their lust above God and everyone else so they can go to hell will just deny it anyway. Nevertheless, I'll explain how families are harmed even though most people don't care:
That's quite an assumption you're making. Quite pessimistic too.
1) They create families where no one in the family is related to each other and don't know their ancestors
How? Are you under the assumption that these families do not explain their history for some reason? This is not a way families are harmed, this is an assumption.
2) Children of homosexual marriages have no clue what a husband and wife are and what each represents because it's arbitrary between each homosexual couple
This is another assumption. Where is your backing? Have you polled these children?
3) Children of a homosexual marriage have only one gender role model so they have no clue how a man and a woman are to treat each other in an intimate relationship
Um, how do they have only one sex role model? This assumes that there is no contact with the outside world to be plausible.
4) Children of a homosexual marriage are programmed to believe that sex between people of the same sex is what they're supposed to do as adults since children look up to their parents.
Another assumption. There are plenty of children from such arrangements that grow up to be heterosexual.
5) Children of a homosexual marriage who have any inclinations toward homosexuality are thus given a license to experiment as adults when they wouldn't do so if society didn't embrace homosexuality. So homosexuality will keep increasing with each generation
According to whom? Where is your population model?
6) Children of a homosexual marriage have zero ideas about what boundaries are between people since sex is the main reason that their parents want to be together in the first place. If the homosexual parents simply wanted to live together as room-mates, then there's no need for them to "marry" each other in the first place.
This is another assumption. Where are you getting all these assumptions? From Google?
7)Children of homosexual marriages will thus grow up, not knowing how to relate to people of their own gender since they think it's okay to be sexually intimate with anyone.
Um... this is yet another assumption.
8) Children of a homosexual marriage have no clue what a mother and father are or what each represents since the "mother" and "father are arbitrary between each couple. So who they call their mother and who they call their father becomes so confusing to them that it alienates them in society and causes irrevocable confusion about what parents are supposed to do and be.
Nice theory. Where's the backing to it?
For starters. Thus, homosexual marriage cause irreversible damage and confusion to the children in those families which creates even more confused people for the next generation. And all that damage just so two people can act on their lust. There can hardly be few things more selfish.
I don't really care about your assumptions about homosexuals. I care about reasons, evidence, and studies. Do you have any of that?
__________________ Originally Posted by CaliforniaJosiah
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dir="ltr"> "Offense" is something TAKEN. No one MAKES anyone feel anything. IF we are offended by something, we CHOSE to be offended by it...
But I think that OFTEN, people confuse discussion with fighting. Disagreeing is not personal, it is not an attack, it is not disrespectful or flaming, it is not offensive per se. It ONLY means, "I disagree." Nothing more. Nothing less. It suggests NO emotional response whatsoever.
NO ONE is mandated to agree with anyone. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. |
13th June 2009, 12:20 PM
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Reps: 162,057,471,836 (power: 162,057,479) | | Originally Posted by Godschild87 That's quite an assumption you're making. Quite pessimistic too.
How? Are you under the assumption that these families do not explain their history for some reason? This is not a way families are harmed, this is an assumption.
This is another assumption. Where is your backing? Have you polled these children?
Um, how do they have only one sex role model? This assumes that there is no contact with the outside world to be plausible.
Another assumption. There are plenty of children from such arrangements that grow up to be heterosexual.
According to whom? Where is your population model?
This is another assumption. Where are you getting all these assumptions? From Google?
Um... this is yet another assumption.
Nice theory. Where's the backing to it?
I don't really care about your assumptions about homosexuals. I care about reasons, evidence, and studies. Do you have any of that?
If you don't believe my post, like I already said you wouldn't, then you won't believe the evidence either because you only believe what you want to believe.
So you can teach your children to act out on their lust if it suits their own desires if you want, but Jesus, who has shown the world that he has more authority than you do to know the truth, warns you about doing so in Luke 17:2 "It would be better for him to be throw into the sea with a millstone tied around his neck than to cause one of these little ones to sin. So watch yourselves. "
It's better to understand that sooner than when it's too late.  But, if you want to gamble your lives and the lives of your children that you're right and Jesus is wrong, then I'm afraid you'll have to wait until you die to understand what Jesus means.
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13th June 2009, 12:34 PM
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Reps: 8,192,929,308,243 (power: 8,192,929,319) | | | Peace, you don't have a monopoly on the truth behind Scripture. There are a large number of people who believe differently than you do on this issue, and hold the words of Jesus in the greatest esteem. Have a little humility. |
13th June 2009, 12:43 PM
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Reps: 162,057,471,836 (power: 162,057,479) | | Originally Posted by Tissue Peace, you don't have a monopoly on the truth behind Scripture. There are a large number of people who believe differently than you do on this issue, and hold the words of Jesus in the greatest esteem. Have a little humility.
But God has a monopoly on truth which is why God is not divided. So he will not tell one person one thing and someone else the opposite. That's why Paul says in 1 Corinthiansd11:19, "No doubt there have to be divisions among you to show which of you has God's approval." So since God's word doesn't lie and people do, then only those who don't contradict any scripture are correct.
So disagreements don't happen because God is divided, but between those who believe scripture and those who don't. And it's not hard to spot those who don't. You can find them in my thread "Wolves in Sheep's Clothing."
They will say that the bible is not the infallible word of God, or that some of it is, or that there are errors in the bible or that scientists know more than God does, etc. None of those beliefs can be backed up by scripture so they are false teachings.  |
13th June 2009, 12:44 PM
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Reps: 6,688,658,930,375,081 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by peace4ever I'm sure it won't do any good to explain how homosexual marriages harm families because those who want homosexuals to put their lust above God and everyone else so they can go to hell will just deny it anyway. Nevertheless, I'll explain how families are harmed even though most people don't care:
1) They create families where no one in the family is related to each other and don't know their ancestors
2) Children of homosexual marriages have no clue what a husband and wife are and what each represents because it's arbitrary between each homosexual couple
3) Children of a homosexual marriage have only one gender role model so they have no clue how a man and a woman are to treat each other in an intimate relationship
4) Children of a homosexual marriage are programmed to believe that sex between people of the same sex is what they're supposed to do as adults since children look up to their parents.
5) Children of a homosexual marriage who have any inclinations toward homosexuality are thus given a license to experiment as adults when they wouldn't do so if society didn't embrace homosexuality. So homosexuality will keep increasing with each generation
6) Children of a homosexual marriage have zero ideas about what boundaries are between people since sex is the main reason that their parents want to be together in the first place. If the homosexual parents simply wanted to live together as room-mates, then there's no need for them to "marry" each other in the first place.
7)Children of homosexual marriages will thus grow up, not knowing how to relate to people of their own gender since they think it's okay to be sexually intimate with anyone.
8) Children of a homosexual marriage have no clue what a mother and father are or what each represents since the "mother" and "father are arbitrary between each couple. So who they call their mother and who they call their father becomes so confusing to them that it alienates them in society and causes irrevocable confusion about what parents are supposed to do and be.
For starters. Thus, homosexual marriage cause irreversible damage and confusion to the children in those families which creates even more confused people for the next generation. And all that damage just so two people can act on their lust. There can hardly be few things more selfish.
I had never even thought of #1. Interesting.
I'm positive each one of these will be attacked and dismissed
as any reason against gay marriage - families by people who refuse
God's designed order at Creation, but these are excellent points
here.
Everyone tends to think that just ONE thing isn't so harmful -
but as time goes on and people get more and more apathetic
and comfortable with the "little" sins, we get into more and more
depraved sin which creates desensitization to evil.
The fruition of that is what we're seeing in this world today -
no ONE thing will ruin society, it's the slow decline of morality
that ruins society as it continues its downward spiral as people
lose a proper moral compass.
Last edited by Nadiine; 13th June 2009 at 12:51 PM.
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13th June 2009, 12:47 PM
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Reps: 162,057,471,836 (power: 162,057,479) | | Originally Posted by Nadiine I had never even thought of #1. Interesting.
I'm positive each one of these will be attacked and dismissed
as any reason against gay marriage - families by people who refuse
God's designed order at Creation, but these are excellent points
here.
Everything tends to think that just ONE thing isn't so harmful -
but as time goes on and people get more and more apathetic
and comfortable with the "little" sins, we get into more and more
depraved sin which creates desensitization to evil.
The fruition of that is what we're seeing in this world today -
no ONE thing will ruin society, it's the slow decline of morality
that ruins society as it continues its downward spiral as people
lose a proper moral compass.
Absolutely as I said when I initiated that post. That's because Satan is the father of lies and will entice people to lie to justify sin. But their lies aren't even subtle.  So they only look foolish and all they'll get will be hell for all their lies. There are few things more tragic than that. | | |
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