I'm curious about what people's views of the atonement would be? Why did Jesus die on the cross? Just what happened when He died on that cross? What happened next? And why did it all happen?
I did notice paragraphs 8-11 on your statement of faith.
8. WE BELIEVE that when Jesus died on the cross, He was separated from God, for He cried "My God My God why have your forsaken me? " because he took our sins upon Himself. (Isa 53:6; Ps 22:1; Matt 27:46; Rom 6:23; 2 Cor 5:21)
9. WE BELIEVE Jesus was sinless, but being our substitute, He descended into hell, fully paying for our sins. (Isa 53:10-11; Ps 16:10; Matt 12:38-40; Matt 27:46; Acts 2:27, 31; Eph 4:8-10; 1 John 4:10 )
10. WE BELIEVE Jesus died Spiritually, when the Spirit of God abandoned Him while Jesus was on the cross, causing Him to cry out "My God My God why have your forsaken me?" Jesus suffered Spiritual death so we could be made free from spiritual death by becoming born-again Christians. (Rev 1:18; Matt 27:46; John 3:2-8; 1 Pet 1:23; Isa 53:9; Acts 2:24; Rom 6:9; Ps 22)
11. WE BELIEVE Jesus was the Lamb of God who took away the sin of the whole world. He was not conceived in sin, nor did He ever sin, but He was made sin that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him. After dying Spiritually on the cross, Jesus was taken into Hell where the Father raised Him up, from death to life, to become the first born-again man ever, the first of a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people known as born-again Christians. (Matt 26:28; 2 Cor 5:21; 1 Pet 2:9; Rev 1:5; John 1:29; Rev 7:14)
This is a good start for me to start to understand, but can you elaborate on those simple sentences, please?
Let me say right off the bat that I'm not here to debate. My goal here is to really understand others' points of view. Please know that I am sincere in not wanting to debate, but understand. Any follow-up questions I may ask will be solely to clarify in my own mind what you might be saying.
Thanks in advance!
__________________ To remain ignorant of things that happened before you were born is to remain a child.
Cicero *************
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greetings gd,
myself I do not believe it is nescessary to get deep into theology on the teaching of Jds to be saved. ie child like faith. I believe Jesus paid the debt for my sins in full, period.
I notice you sport a calvinist icon.
Baptist critize wof for the Jds teaching, being totaly unaware that John Calvin taught the exact same thing. if you have quickverse look up "institute of Christing religion" by John Calvin. here is a quote.
What did John Calvin born 1509 say concerning Jesus entering hell and suffering spiritual torment there??
INSTITUES OF THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION, BOOK 2, CHAPTER 16, SECTION 8, HERE WE MUST NOT OMIT THE DESCENDT TO HELL, WHICH IS OF NO LITTLE IMPORTANCE TO THE ACCOMPLISHMENT OF REDEMPTION!!! ...................THIS MUCH IS UNCONTROVERTED, THAT IT WAS IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE GENERAL SENTIMENT OF ALL BELIVERS, SINCE THERE IS NONE OF THE CHURCH FATHERS WHO DOES NOT MENTION CHRIST'S DESCENT INTO HELL.......The chief thing to be attended to in the creed is, that it furnishes us with a full and every way complete summary of faith, containing nothing but what has been derived from the infallible word of God. But should any scruple to give it admission into the creed, it will shortly be made plain, that the place which it holds in a summary of our redemption is so important, that the omission of it greatly detracts from the benefit of Christ's death. section 10, But apart from the creed, we must seek for a surer exposition of Christ's descent to hell, and the word of God furnishes us with one not only pious and holy, but replete with excellent consolation. nothing had been done if Christ had only endured corporeal death. In order to interpose between us and God's anger, and satisfy his righteous judgment................not only was the body of Christ given up as the price of redemption, but that there was a greater and more excellent price-that he bore in his soul (spirit) the tortures of condemned and ruined man. section 11, and certainly no abyss can be imagined more dreadful than to feel that you are abandoned, and forsaken of God, and not heard when you invoke him, just as if he had conspired your destruction. To such a degree was Christ dejected, that in the depth of his agony he was forced to exclaim, "My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me?........................Thus by engaging with the power of the devil, the fear of death, and the pains of hell, he gained the victory, and achieved a triumph, so that we now fear not in death those things which our Prince has destroyed. Section 13 Next follows the resurrection from the dead, without which all that has hitherto been said would be defective. For seeing that in the cross, death, and burial of Christ, nothing but weakness appears, faith must go beyond all these, in order that it may be provided with full strength. end of my quote from "institutes of the Christian religion", by John Calvin.
In a email I received from a Baptist critic of wof faith Justin Peters who is southwestern grad, denys Baptist ties to calvinism, I guess he forgot to read the book, "a southern Baptist dialogue Calvinism" by E. Ray Clendenen, Brad J. Waggoner. This is not a personal attack against Justin, I actualy feel sorry for him, I believe the cic book has deceived him, and he is so very wrong on a lot of his points. http://www.justinpeters.org/demo.htm
be blessed
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2 Chronicles 16:9 For the eyes of the LORD run to and fro throughout the whole earth, to show himself strong in the behalf of them whose heart is perfect toward Him.
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Last edited by gennaoanothen; 1st June 2009 at 07:25 AM.
one very wrong statment he made in his presentation video was concerning Dad Hagin.
"If you cant find it in scripture that is ok Jesus told me himself"
that is a bold face lie and slander against another, which is sin.
he is so very misinformed, and he goes about proclaiming his beliefe is gospel.
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2 Chronicles 16:9 For the eyes of the LORD run to and fro throughout the whole earth, to show himself strong in the behalf of them whose heart is perfect toward Him.
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greetings gd,
myself I do not believe it is nescessary to get deep into theology on the teaching of Jds to be saved. ie child like faith. I believe Jesus paid the debt for my sins in full, period.
I notice you sport a calvinist icon.
Baptist critize wof for the Jds teaching, being totaly unaware that John Calvin taught the exact same thing. if you have quickverse look up "institute of Christing religion" by John Calvin. here is a quote.
Howdy! Thanks for your response!
I don't think I'm familiar with the abbreviation Jds. What does that mean?
I have a copy of Calvin's Institutes. Right now I'm trying to find out what others believe about the atonement. I understand that we all believe that Jesus paid the debt for our sins in full. However, many people also believe that the Scriptures also tell us how and why that happened. Are you saying that you agree with Calvin's interpretation of the atonement, as he puts forth in the Institutes of Christian Religion? This is not a trick question; I'm not trying to set anybody up. I'm just seeking clarification and understanding.
Thanks!
__________________ To remain ignorant of things that happened before you were born is to remain a child.
Cicero *************
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
I don't think I'm familiar with the abbreviation Jds. What does that mean?
I have a copy of Calvin's Institutes. Right now I'm trying to find out what others believe about the atonement. I understand that we all believe that Jesus paid the debt for our sins in full. However, many people also believe that the Scriptures also tell us how and why that happened. Are you saying that you agree with Calvin's interpretation of the atonement, as he puts forth in the Institutes of Christian Religion? This is not a trick question; I'm not trying to set anybody up. I'm just seeking clarification and understanding.
Thanks!
myself I take no position on the Jesus died spiritually teaching, anotherwords I am neutral, I do not believe scripture is clear enough on that position, that is my position. salvation is not dependant on being a theologian.
i do understand what your believes on atonement probably is.
It is an age old battle, my 11th great grandfather, (Dr. Rowland Taylor (Foxes book of martyrs) was in the kings prison awaiting martyrdum at the hands of bloody mary and the Catholic church. Surprising enough there were two different groups both awaiting exucution by burning alive for there faith. The predestinators and freewillers, and the controversy still continues.
I believe salvation is for all, but God is all knowing so
He already knows who will be in heaven and who won't a million years from today.
you may view my position on salvation, by clicking the link in my signature "where will you spend your eternity"
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2 Chronicles 16:9 For the eyes of the LORD run to and fro throughout the whole earth, to show himself strong in the behalf of them whose heart is perfect toward Him.
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Last edited by gennaoanothen; 1st June 2009 at 01:31 PM.
My understanding of JDS is this... sin is a spiritual condition, the first sin resulted in spiritual death that was passed onto all men... to make this right the price must be paid... a spiritual condition for a spiritual condition...
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