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  #31  
Old 24th May 2009, 11:08 PM
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The Church's language on racism, genocide and abortion is linked because the root of all is the denial of human dignity. Link

So it is not out of place to connect them.
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If pregnancy presents a challenge, do we as a society rise to the challenge by dispensing with the child? And when a pregnancy comes at a difficult time, what is the worthier response? Do we surround mother and child with protection and love, or do we hold out to her the cold comfort of a trip to an abortionist? Where is our true character as a nation to be seen - let's ask ourselves this question: Where is our true character to be seen, in an adoptive home, or in an abortion clinic? Who are we? Who are we America? That question deserves an answer.
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  #32  
Old 25th May 2009, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Davidnic View Post
The Church's language on racism, genocide and abortion is linked because the root of all is the denial of human dignity. Link

So it is not out of place to connect them.

Well, what does it matter how the talking points work since according to Finn no one is talking anyway.
  #33  
Old 25th May 2009, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by D'Ann View Post


So... Charlie, you think it's okay to "legalize" abortion and also have social programs that some how are suppose to educate people in not having abortions?
One reason why there are so many abortions, I think, is because adolescence is prolonged today. Kids reach puberty at 12 and aren't in a position to get married until they're 22 or 23.

And along comes President Obama, who wants to lengthen the school day so that American students will be more competitive with those in other countries.

Heaven knows that President Obama, who went through a period of alcohol and drug use as a teenager, knows that idle hands are the devil's workshop.
“We can no longer afford an academic calendar designed when America was a nation of farmers who needed their children at home plowing the land at the end of each day,” Obama said. He continued to say “That calendar may have once made sense, but today, it puts us at a competitive disadvantage. Our children spend over a month less in school than children in South Korea. That is no way to prepare them for a 21st century economy.”
Obama Proposes Longer School Days | Edu in Review Blog

Want to stop abortion and premarital sex? One way is to enable kids to complete their educations earlier so that they can become financially independent earlier.

Which has the wonderful side effect of giving them less free time to get into trouble in the meantime.

We expect our children to remain chaste because it's the right thing....

But it was a much easier thing hundreds of years ago, when they reached puberty at 15 and got married at 15 1/2.

And that's not even "education." It's just common sense.
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  #34  
Old 25th May 2009, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by 2Cosmic2Charlie View Post
Ya know, we have a speech which essential puts forth the proposition the people of good will can work together even if they hold some irreconcilable moral differences and all Finn want to focus on is "irreconcilable differences".

In America you don't get to become the President at age 46, especially if you're a black man, unless you are an exceptionally gifted politician. Obama's exceptional gift is making his opposition look obstinate, obtuse and out of touch.

In Finn's case, he didn't have to work very hard.
Or he's exceptionally willing to be a tool for the Machine...
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  #35  
Old 25th May 2009, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by 2Cosmic2Charlie View Post
Well, what does it matter how the talking points work since according to Finn no one is talking anyway.
Well, I don't see them as talking points. I see them as spiritual guidance. Yeah...no one is talking. I do believe that in the end it will come to a head. If we work on things like the pregnant woman's support act and start to make headway on some issues it will highlight the horror of abortion as a function of choice. But in the end I firmly believe Obama supports abortion as a function of choice and if we make headway on the other social issues eventually there will be a massive collision on the irreconcilable parts.

I do see Bishop Finn's point. Obama is opposed to stopping abortion fully. Since he supports it as direct choice he would stand behind someone making 100,000 a year with every means to support the child, choosing to murder the baby, because that child is not human and is secondary to the exercise of that choice. If that is where he is coming from, and it is....then any dialog only goes so far and a good deal of it that can be done is surface.

Even things like the pregnant womens support act are not his or related to him in any way. They belong to the pro-life dems and bi-partisan effort that Obama was not a part of when he was in congress. He did not directly oppose it, but he did aggressivly avoid it.
__________________
If pregnancy presents a challenge, do we as a society rise to the challenge by dispensing with the child? And when a pregnancy comes at a difficult time, what is the worthier response? Do we surround mother and child with protection and love, or do we hold out to her the cold comfort of a trip to an abortionist? Where is our true character as a nation to be seen - let's ask ourselves this question: Where is our true character to be seen, in an adoptive home, or in an abortion clinic? Who are we? Who are we America? That question deserves an answer.
Bob Casey Sr.

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  #36  
Old 25th May 2009, 10:16 AM
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So do any of you agree with me that lengthening the school day and the school year would have a positive effect on teen pregnancy and abortion (not to mention our children's competitiveness in the global economy) by keeping teens busier in the high hormone years and allowing them to become economically independent by completing their educations earlier?

To me, that's a very creative solution, because it addresses a number of problems effectively.
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  #37  
Old 25th May 2009, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Davidnic View Post
Well, I don't see them as talking points. I see them as spiritual guidance. Yeah...no one is talking. I do believe that in the end it will come to a head. If we work on things like the pregnant woman's support act and start to make headway on some issues it will highlight the horror of abortion as a function of choice. But in the end I firmly believe Obama supports abortion as a function of choice and if we make headway on the other social issues eventually there will be a massive collision on the irreconcilable parts.

I do see Bishop Finn's point. Obama is opposed to stopping abortion fully. Since he supports it as direct choice he would stand behind someone making 100,000 a year with every means to support the child, choosing to murder the baby, because that child is not human and is secondary to the exercise of that choice. If that is where he is coming from, and it is....then any dialog only goes so far and a good deal of it that can be done is surface.

Even things like the pregnant womens support act are not his or related to him in any way. They belong to the pro-life dems and bi-partisan effort that Obama was not a part of when he was in congress. He did not directly oppose it, but he did aggressivly avoid it.
"Talking point", "Spiritual guidance", whatever. Maybe I'm just jaded.

As for "irreconcilable differences":

1) I've been an engineer and a project manager long enough to have learned two things: today's unsolvable problems are fodder for tomorrows breakthroughs.

and

You work with what you have today, change the situation and tomorrow you have a different point of view. Today's "irreconcilable differences" are tomorrow minor problems.

2) Point 1 has brought me to this conclusion: Things change, people change to fit the situation. Change the situation and you change to whole world view. Change the situation, things change, people change.

Intentionally keep the situation the same and nothing changes, people become entrenched in their thinking and their views.

You want to borrow trouble down the line and not work out the stuff you can now because down the line you might have conflict and what you get ?

Nothing changes.

To me, this is the fundamental difference between liberal thought and conservative thought. Its a mindset, an internal paradyne , if you will:

A conservative says that people will never change and are always the way they are now.

A liberal says we can change people for the better if we try.

Everything grows from that.

Finn is a conservative.

I am not.
  #38  
Old 25th May 2009, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Fantine View Post
So do any of you agree with me that lengthening the school day and the school year would have a positive effect on teen pregnancy and abortion (not to mention our children's competitiveness in the global economy) by keeping teens busier in the high hormone years and allowing them to become economically independent by completing their educations earlier?

To me, that's a very creative solution, because it addresses a number of problems effectively.
I honestly think that if you gave the youth of America some hope of a future that would solve most of our social problems.

Studies have shown that our drop out rate is high because kids have it figured you by about age 15:

A lot of them will never either afford or succeed in college. There is no industrial work and even if they graduate college their working careers are going to be subjected to the ravages of outsourced and in sourced foriegn labor (all of which has been subsidized by their government); they will be in debt from the moment they begin there lives (America is the only western country that does not offer free or almost free post high school education to anyone who wants it and can actually do the work necessary to pass the courses); and the number of real jobs and real income has keeps shrinking.

You want to solve teen pregnancy, the drop out rate and youth crime ?

Institute a reasonable industrial policy, start subsidizing post high school education and stand back.
  #39  
Old 25th May 2009, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by 2Cosmic2Charlie View Post

You want to solve teen pregnancy, the drop out rate and youth crime ?

Institute a reasonable industrial policy, start subsidizing post high school education and stand back.
The national service policy that Obama would like to institute would solve that.

In return for national service, students would get college assistance. And, hopefully, after they had worked in public service for a year they might be mature when starting college or trade school.
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  #40  
Old 25th May 2009, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Fantine View Post
The national service policy that Obama would like to institute would solve that.

In return for national service, students would get college assistance. And, hopefully, after they had worked in public service for a year they might be mature when starting college or trade school.
The republicans will fight that hammer and tongs (or more likely flamethrowers and jackhammers) because it forces people to do something.

Which the GOP is against, unless its forcing them to live in poverty.

Then they're it.
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