God is one god , His truth is one truth , His own, His words are not subject to interpretation ,so hermeneutics is the work of those under a veil , who deny vast amount of scripture to keep countless divided doctrines of sinners , the spirit is promised to all who follow Jesus [John 16:13] which rather makes the point , those with the spirit do not need to be taught the meaning of the scriptures by anyone since God does it Himself [Heb 8:8-12] :-
2 Peter 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
This is part of the actual new covenant [Heb 8:8-12, Jer 31:31-34] , the saints have no need to teach each other as sinners do teach diverse doctrines to other sinners within divided religions of men :-
Heb 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
John 6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.[Jesus]
1 Thessalonians 4:9 But as touching brotherly love ye need not that I write unto you: for ye yourselves are taught of God to love one another.
God alone then teaches the saints how to obey Him and Jesus, to keep the command to love God and love all around one, to stop sinning then [for sin is breaking the law , and the law is to love]:-
1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
Thus faith in God is given by God to stop sinning , that is what baptism of the spirit means , saints alone obey Jesus as their lord , sinners by definition are sinning still, not obeying Jesus as lord [a lord is someone who is obeyed] :-
2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
The truth of scripture thus requires no interpretation, no hermeneutics , no masses of scholars spending their lives studying it and missing even the foundation of God ... those who follow Jesus will have ceased to sin before his return, anyone still a sinner by then will be not be taken :-
Luke 13:27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.
Matthew 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
It is not subject to interpretation it is clear in the mouths of many saints as witnesses , saints cease to be sinners and only the saints can follow Jesus when he returns :-
Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
There we have it then, one does not need countless books by endless scholars even , one simply needs to be able to read what the scripture says and take it in as written... and it demolishes divided religion of men , including modern divided Christianity and divided Judaism.
The traditions of men have become false then just as the saints and Jesus prophesied [2Thess 2, Rev 13:3-8] , only the few will follow Jesus as saints sealed by the spirit in this life [Matt 7:14, Rev 7:3-8]
Few [tens of thousands only, Jude 1:14] , 144.000 follow the strait narrow way of saints before Jesus' return , and the many , all sinners , go to destruction of the body in death , billions die in the wrath of God against all who remain sinners by Jesus' return.
But Jesus says that not just the few are saved who are first, on the contrary, countless many of all nations are saved afterward and we know that countless many did NOT go by the strait narrow way [Matt 7:13-14] but by the broad way to destruction in this life .
Now the many are not resurrected until after the Millennium :-
Revelation 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.
Thus we know that most people saved die in sin and are resurrected from hell to be saved in the kingdom come after the Millennium :-
Revelation 20:13 ...death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Note then that the few were saved by grace, but the many are judged by works after being freed from sin by death :-
Romans 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
As one can readily see then, the scripture not only teaches the truth of God ,but the teachings of the saints and Jesus are very very different from the divided teachings of religion of sinners , just as Jesus and the saints said would be true at this time...
One does not need then to live in fear of hell as excuse for saying one believes divided traditions of men, one can instead have respect for God and trust Jesus and his saints for the truth about what is coming.
Consider then the words of the new covenant , that it is only with the descendant remnant of the House of Israel and the House of Judah [Heb 8:8] , those whose fathers broke the old covenant [Heb 8:9] , that grace applies to Israel because God said they would be His kingdom of priests, His holy nation [Exodus 19:6] , as Jesus says, the first few are of the tribes of Israel [Rev 7:3-8] but the countless many saved later are of all nations [Rev 7:9-10] ... is it so hard to see then to whom the priests minister in the kingdom of God ? Why the remnant of Israel are first and the gentiles are second saved?
Isa 59:20 [REB] So shall come in for Zion, a Redeemer, Even for such as are turning from transgression in Jacob,—Declareth Yahweh.
21 And as for me, this, shall be my covenant with them, Saith Yahweh: My spirit that is upon thee, And my words which I have put in thy mouth,—Shall not he taken out of thy mouth—Nor out of the mouth of thy seed. Nor out of the mouth of thy seeds seed, Saith Yahweh, From henceforth even unto times age-abiding.
The new covenant is with the descendants of Israel , those whose fathers broke the old covenant - Heb 8:9 - read it and understand how that is the means by which countless many gentiles are afterward saved too ....
Jesus came to the Israelites first, but knew his death was near when the gentiles were seeking him out in the last days of his ministry. The truths of God through Christ are meant to save all people of the earth, but the order was first for the Isrealites, who rejected him and still do. Shall God be a god of the rejecting ones, or will he not seek those who love him and want him? Have a good day.
Jesus said to preach to all the earth and all creatures. I hope the Isrealites will return and see Jesus soon.
Jesus came to the Israelites first, but knew his death was near when the gentiles were seeking him out in the last days of his ministry. The truths of God through Christ are meant to save all people of the earth, but the order was first for the Israelites, who rejected him and still do. Shall God be a god of the rejecting ones, or will he not seek those who love him and want him? Have a good day.
Jesus said to preach to all the earth and all creatures. I hope the Israelites will return and see Jesus soon.
Have you considered reading the new covenant , what God says in it, as distinct from what sinners pretend it says ?
God did indeed reject Israel because they broke His old covenant with them , but the new covenant states that it is only with those whose fathers broke the old covenant [Heb 8:8-9]
More than that it states that they will be the people of God, no-one else, because God says so [not because of them , they rebelled but are now given unmerited forgiveness, grace]
It amazes me that Jews do not read the new covenant in the OT [Jer 31:31-34] and Christians refuse to read the new covenant as repeated by Paul in the NT [Heb 8:8-12] ... I mean that is bizarre, since that is the way those whom Jesus takes at his return will be saved , neither Jew nor Christian can be saved in this life without grace and most do not bother to even read the contract !!!
Just four verses in OT and NT and almost no-one reads them, acknowledges them ,yet they are what salvation of the masses [Rev 7:9-10] ultimately depends upon too ... I mean that is weird, ignoring the new covenant by tradition !!!
So why not read it and take a few minutes to understand what God says , its very different than what most Christians believe and very different from what most Jews believe? Yet its not long, not hard to understand , just IGNORED by almost everyone!
The scriptural Covenant of Grace
Hebrews 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the House of Israel and with the House of Judah:
Paul says the new covenant is with the two nations into which Israel was long ago divided ... no mention of anyone else under grace!
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
Paul says the new covenant of grace is for the Hebrews whose 'fathers' broke the old covenant , proving that grace is for descendants of the two nations descended from Jacob whose ancestors broke the old covenant, NOT with some 'spiritual Israel' composed of gentiles unconnected with Israel.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
God takes this remnant descended from Jacob [Israel] to be His people and says He will be their God ... why do almost all modern Christians not believe Him?
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
God says that those under grace will NOT TEACH one another because He will put His laws in their minds and hearts Himself!
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
God says that He has completely forgiven Israel the sins of their forefathers under the old covenant , directly contradicting most modern Christianity's teachings.
__________________
It is identical to the version given long before Jesus came by Jeremiah 31:31-34 , underlining that grace is for the remnant children of Israel named by Jesus , tribe by tribe, descended from the named sons of Jacob [Rev 7:3-8]
These FEW [literally just tens of thousands - Jude 1:14] are thus the few that find the straight narrow way in this life prior to Jesus return to take those who are saints by then [or by death, if sooner] [Matt 7:14]
What then of the MANY who go by the broad way through destruction in death?
We know that countless many are saved according to Jesus [Rev 7:9-10] , so the MANY are certainly not all lost, as much modern divided Christianity claims!
we know from Jesus that the many who go by the broad way are all resurrected from hell and judged by works :-
Revelation 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
and we know when that is, AFTER the Millennium :-
Revelation 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.
but the countless MANY saved after [Rev 7:9-10] who went through destruction in death and resurrection from hell clearly are saved by beiing freed from sin by death - as sin's sole wages is death :-
Romans 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Freed from past sin then, countless many who go by the broad way in this life are saved by works after the Millennium [in the righteous new earth kingdom of God]:-
2 Peter 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
Isaiah 62:2 And the Gentiles shall see thy righteousness...
The FEW are translated first ,at Jesus' return, because God requires them to be the kings and priests in His kingdom, to serve the countless many [over 12 billion gentiles] later , as promised long ago to Moses :-
Exodus 19:6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.
Israel were never a holy nation and kingdom of priests under the old covenant , but as Paul and God say in the hew covenant, their children [remnant of their descendants] are forgiven all sins under the old covenant.
Thus Jesus is the prophesied king [Messiah, Christ] who will re-unite the two Houses of divided Israel into a holy nation of priests in God's kingdom, by means of which countless many gentiles will be redeemed by the ministry and rule of the descendants of Jacob [Israel]
Last edited by stranger; 24th May 2009 at 09:11 AM.
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Scripture is the word of God, why would one not follow every word carefully?
Why would the rules one obeys not be those of scripture and Christ ,but personal private interpretations? Does this scripture mean nothing to one about God ? :-
2 Peter 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
Why ignore some scripture then, what does one gain, what does one lose ?
“God is one god , His truth is one truth , His own, His words are not subject to interpretation ,so hermeneutics is the work of those under a veil , who deny vast amount of scripture to keep countless divided doctrines of sinners , the spirit is promised to all who follow Jesus [John 16:13] which rather makes the point , those with the spirit do not need to be taught the meaning of the scriptures by anyone since God does it Himself [Heb 8:8-12] :-
2 Peter 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
This is part of the actual new covenant [Heb 8:8-12, Jer 31:31-34] , the saints have no need to teach each other as sinners do teach diverse doctrines to other sinners within divided religions of men :-“
If you placed 2 Peter 1:20 in context you would find this:
And we have something more sure, the prophetic word, to which you will do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts, knowing this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture comes from someone’s own interpretation. For no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit (2 Peter 1:19-21 ESV).
In context (which is one principle of interpretation), this passage (including v. 20) is talking about the production of Holy Scripture in the original writings of the NT.
If “hermeneutics is the work of those under a veil” (your language), you are not reading the same Scriptures that I read:
Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth. But avoid irreverent babble, for it will lead people into more and more ungodliness (2 Tim. 2:15-16 ESV).
With your kind of teaching you are not "rightly handling the word of truth."
As for the saints having “no need to teach each other as sinners do teach diverse doctrines to other sinners within divided religions of men” (your language), the Bible teaches differently.
You are contradicting your own teaching. You are trying to teach us (believers) these different teachings but you stated that there is no need to teach each other as sinners. Like it or not, we are all people who still sin after becoming believers. That makes us sinners saved by grace.
The ministry of Bible interpretation (hermeneutics) is absolutely necessary to discern that you are not teaching the Scriptures with some of what you have written.
Further,one of the ministry gifts of Christ to the church is the gift of teacher (Eph. 4:11). Bible-believing Christians, of which I am one, continue to need teaching and interpretation of God's Word. That's Bible!
He that committeth sin is of the devil -1 John 3:8
I am not trying to teach anything ,or 'convert' anyone , but simply pointing out some of the things that the saints and Jesus say which are being totally ignored by religion of sinners today...
...and you are somehow forgetting that 'hermeneutics' is resulting in the division of Christianity into its tens of thousands of recognisable fragments and and billions more individual beliefs of 'hermeneuticists' ...
Also the church of God is made up of saints, not sinners , sealed by the spirit of God Himself into one body of one truth of God [e.g. Rev 7:3-4] :-
1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil
No sinner is following Christ because sin is of the devil ,not of Christ.
We know that Christianity is divided, so we know it is not following the one truth of God, thus it must almost all be following Satan , since it is divided right down to individual beliefs only one of which could possibly be true [and maybe none!]
The idea of religion of sinners is described in the bible, and indeed all the saints were sinners before departing from their sin to become saints of God , but God makes it very clear that the role of the few saints who go by the narrow strait way [Matt 7;14, Rev 7:3-8, Jude 1:14] are the ones who are first ... the many go by the broad way, but Jesus says that countless many are saved afterward [Rev 7:9-10] ... thus there are two periods of salvation, the few at Jesus' return and the many who were sinners at death after the Millennium , the countless many then of the many not saved at the first resurrection:-
Revelation 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.
Clearly divided Christianity is misinterpreting scripture by use of 'hermeneutics' so it is far from adequate, and the scripture suggests why it fails :-
Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
Thus ,a s the saints suggest, it is wise to REPROVE doctrines of sinners by means of the scriptures of saints and prophets of God :-
2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
It is easy to prove, as I have done above that this is not being done ... tradition of men resists being reproved to scripture ad simply asserts authority without humility before the words of the saints.
Saints do not teach those under grace because God teaches all those who are to be saints by means of His own spirit [Heb 8:8-12]
saints may teach sinners , and sinners may quote saints, but there is no basis in scripture for sinners to preach to sinners except in spreading the word of the devil [as must happen in this world for Rev 13:3-4 , 2thess 2 to come true]
Thus most people are saved through death as sinners following Satan in this world , few are saved by grace in this world... but countless many are saved by belief in Jesus and sainthood in the next life by judgment day... Jesus' statement [Rev 7:9-10] proves the obvious, that churches of sinners [divided but now numbered in billions] are indeed saved eventually, but not at his return .[cos' the many go by the broad way, not the strait narrow way Matt 7:13]
Why did you avoid answering most of the issues I raised in my response to you?
You stated:
He that committeth sin is of the devil -1 John 3:8
I suggest that you get a more accurate translation of what the Greek text actually conveys. The English Standard Version reads: "Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil."
We know that Christianity is divided, so we know it is not following the one truth of God, thus it must almost all be following Satan , since it is divided right down to individual beliefs only one of which could possibly be true [and maybe none!]
Stranger,
I suggest that you get a more accurate translation of what the Greek text actually conveys. The English Standard Version reads: "Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil."
Young's Literal translation :-
He who is doing the sin, of the devil he is
Rotherham Emphasised bible:-
He that is committing sin, is, of the adversary
New InternationaL Version:-
He who does what is sinful is of the devil
American Standard Version :- He that doeth sin is of the devil
Contemporary English Bible :-
Anyone who keeps on sinning belongs to the devil.
I suggest you read a 'less-engineered' translation ... but sin is mostly habitual anyway...
Literal translation:- THE one doing THE sin OUT OF THE Adversary IS
Further,one of the ministry gifts of Christ to the church is the gift of teacher (Eph. 4:11). Bible-believing Christians, of which I am one, continue to need teaching and interpretation of God's Word. That's Bible!
Please read the new covenant itself [Heb 8:8-12] , it states who are under grace and that they will not teach each other .
Thus saints do not teach saints ... they do however teach sinners, but sinners are not yet under grace until they stop sinning :-
Luke 13:27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.
2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
One is either a saint under grace or a sinner still of the devil .... if one sins one is not being loving, one is disobeying Jesus so he is not one's lord if one still sins, but one's lord is Satan :-
1 John 3:8 [KJV] He that committeth sin is of the devil
1 John 3:8 [REB] He that is committing sin, is, of the adversary
Thus it would seem foolish to accept a sinner as one's teacher as most people do in modern religion ... better perhaps to learn off the saints in scripture alone until one is baptised of the spirit to be able to stop sinning
...
Thus I do not attempt to teach anyone, but point out that the scriptures of the saints disagree with the divided teachings of modern religion ,which obviously couldn't be the truth of God because they are divided anyway :-
Luke 11:17 But he, knowing their thoughts, said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and a house divided against a house falleth.
God's truth is one truth, religion is countless different tales , what is not one truth of God is of sinners who scripture states serve the devil... the implication for modern religious apostasy is evident then simply from its division ... interpretation by sinners yields many tales, but they are not of God's truth.
Why does God leave religion of sinners divided? 
Why not read what God says ? 
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