You are a stranger to biblical teaching. I Cor. 12:28-29; Eph. 4:11; Heb. 5:12;James 3:1 refute your view.
In fact, James 3:1 states: Not many of you should become teachers, my brothers, for you know that we who teach will be judged with greater strictness" (ESV). This verse would be pointless if there were no ministry of the teacher in the church following the death of the apostles.
Then you come up with this comment:
Why would you imagine that the apostles are the only saints ?????
There have been 144,000 saints of Israel by the time Jesus returns [Rev 7:3-8]
We cannot have a rational conversation when you don't know how to stick with the subject.
Stranger,
I stated:
Then you come up with this comment:
We cannot have a rational conversation when you don't know how to stick with the subject.
Or perhaps you are not explaining whatever point you are trying to make and I guessed wrongly what you are trying to say?
My reply was supposed to state the obvious , that the teachers in the churches and beyond are the saints ... no-one else is qualified to teach by baptism of the spirit.
Salvation of countless many of those many who go the broad way ...
Read the new covenant of God :-
Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
Thus all those under grace of the new covenant do not teach each other because God has put His laws in their mind and in their hearts of desire... they all know God already so have no need to teach each other.... read what God says and compare it to modern religion of sinners ...
all under grace are saints :-
1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil
Saints do NOT teach saints then , but do teach sinners that they must give up sin before they can be saved from Satan's wiles:-
2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
Thus Jesus says explicitly that he will take no-one who is still a sinner by his return:-
Luke 13:27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.
That seems too hard for most people to accept, and indeed it is , only few find the narrow strait way of saints in this life [Matt 7:14] , most go by the broad way of sinners to destruction in death
But note that not just the few are saved [Rev 7:3-8] , but after countless many are saved, and we know they came by the broad way of death as sinners in this world , yet Jesus says they are saved [Rev 7:9-10]
So when are most people saved , not the few at Jesus' return, but the countless many of those who go the broad way of sinners in this life ?
We know that those who go the broad way cannot live again until after the Mllenium :-
Revelation 20:5 The rest of the dead, lived not, until the thousand years, were ended.
Thus countless many of all nations are saved after the Millennium by their righteous life in the kingdom of God created during the Millennium [and the few were first only because they are the nation of priests and kings required to serve the many who will be saved after them]
2 Peter 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
The works of countless many in the new earth are thus righteous because of the few saved first and thus the many are saved by turning from sin to righteousness after resurrection from hell [Hades] , to be judged by their works and saved at judgment day according to God's law that those who turn from sin to rihteousness will live [no second death for sin for countless many then] :-
Ezek 18:21 But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
22 All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.
This is the enduring mercy of God then , not unmerited forgiveness [grace] , but mercy on repentent sinners who stop sinning , and how most people are saved, not in this life, but the next :-
Revelation 20:13 ... death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Saints do NOT teach saints then , but do teach sinners that they must give up sin before they can be saved from Satan's wiles:-
But Paul specifically addresses people as saints and then teaches them various things. The bulk of the New Testament is addressed to the saints. If saints must not teach other saints then the Bible is completely unnecessary.
__________________ Poets have been mysteriously silent on the subject of cheese. - G.K. Chesterton
But Paul specifically addresses people as saints and then teaches them various things. The bulk of the New Testament is addressed to the saints. If saints must not teach other saints then the Bible is completely unnecessary.
I don't know why you question the new covenant ? Why won't you accept what it says , that all those under grace are taught by God, not by each other , and that grace is how they give up sinning and become saints, not by teaching each other, it is the gift of God , not from themselves ...
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
I don't see what you gain by doubting what the scriptural new covenant states , why ? ... how?
The bible is unnecessary to the saints except as the means of awakening them to the new covenant with Israel when they are still sinners , a written record to back up what the saints teach sinners ... also it is the record of God's prophecies, to prove His power by having declared the end from the beginning... it is then a big advantage to have the scripture , but not wholly necessary , the spirit of God gave the scripture originally and is perfectly capable of giving its teaching to anyone ... what most do not accept is that the scripture sates very clearly that FEW will find the strait narrow way of saints in this life and the many will go the broad way of sinners for now, [Matt 7:13-14] but that countless many who thus all came bythe broad way, are saved after the few who came the strait narrow way first [Rev 7:3-10] ... a gigantic mistake in modern divided , thus apostate , religion.
I accept what the passage says but I do not accept what you say the passage says. Paul specifically addresses people as saints of God and then goes on to teach them. The book of Romans is addressed to the "saints of God." It is not addressed to unbelievers and yet it contains lots and lots of teachings.
__________________ Poets have been mysteriously silent on the subject of cheese. - G.K. Chesterton
I don't know why you question the new covenant ? Why won't you accept what it says , that all those under grace are taught by God, not by each other
You don't realise that the problem is with you and not with us. It is you who won't read the entire NT to come up with a biblical understanding of the subject.
You are pushing your own theological barrel and it will never add up to what the total NT says
Faith of few united saints of this life and religion of many divided sinners ...
Originally Posted by OzSpen
Stranger,
You don't realise that the problem is with you and not with us. It is you who won't read the entire NT to come up with a biblical understanding of the subject.
You don't realise that the problem is with you and not with me. It is you who won't read the entire NT to come up with a biblical understanding of the subject.
You are pushing your own theological barrel and it will never add up to what the total NT says
I am not interested in divided theology of sinners, and have no intention of pushing anything ... by studying ALL the NT and OT alone with God for over twenty years , I realise that apostate 'christianity of sinners' [oxymoron] has a major role in God's plan for ensnaring Satan [2Thess 2] and in delaying the salvation of the many [Rev 7:9-10, Matt 7:13] until the few have established the priesthood of the new covenant [1Pet 2:9-10] under the new covenant with Israel's two still-divided Houses [Heb 8:8-12]...
I do not expect you to understand or to abandon the doctrines of sinners that you choose to believe in place of the saints of Israel of scripture , I don't even expect you to see that the covenant of grace is with those descended from the two nations that broke the old covenant with God as it states unambiguously [Heb 8:8-9, Jer 31:31-32] which alone would show you the mistake of believing in sinners in place of God ... s likely we have little to agree about until Jesus returns and does what he has said, that he will take no-one who is still a sinner by then ...
Luke 13:27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.
Matthew 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil
That you can believe the divided ways sinners ignore what these NT scriptures of Jesus and the saints say is unsurprising to me and you are welcome to your beliefs , they are necessary to God's plan... be at peace then, only the few are saved first [Matt 7:14] and the rest of mankind suffers delusion sent by God for a time , until death as sinners [and so go by the broad way through destruction in death Matt 7:13] :-
2 Thessalonians 2:11 ...God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
God does not do this in vain! ... but simply to take the few first to become the kings and priests of the kingdom who must later rule the masses of gentiles and minister to them as perfect priests of their new covenant with God , as promised by God :-
Exodus 19:6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.
This is why Jesus was sent by God only to the House of Israel at his first visit and takes only a few saints of Israel [Rev 7:3-8, Jude 1:14] at his return :-
Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the House of Israel.
So you likely won't see why listening to sinners instead of these scriptures of saints will lead you to be a sinner at death and follow the many down the broad way [Matt 7:13] , but you just might be able to see that not just the first few are saved to be priests and kings on earth, but they are first only because countless many of all nations [not just Israel!] are saved later of the many who go by the broad way of death as sinners :-
Rev 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
Peace my friend, God has it all in hand, you do not need to understand it all yet if you are not gig to give up sin yet like most men :-
1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil
MOST men are thus saved at judgment day after death as sinners , after the Millenium , for being righteous after resurrection :-
Revelation 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.
It is written, but understandably maybe you do not need to understand it yet? I have no contention whatsoever over that, it is all scriptural that most will gnash their teeth when Jesus takes only those saints of Israel whom he said he would... we know that countless many of all nations are later saved ... what point gnashing teeth at God if one believed sinners and remained a sinner till death? God is not the god of sinners despite that he will save so many from sin , He has said He will take a few only first ,so they can assist in the salvation from sin of billions afterward...
Salvation of countless many of those many who go the broad way ... 
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