Home | Be a Christian | Devotionals | Join Us! | Forums | Rules | F.A.Q.


Go Back   Christian Forums > Theology (Christians Only) > Theology > Christian Scriptures > Bibliology & Hermeneutics
Register BlogsPrayersJobsArcade Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Bibliology & Hermeneutics The study of the Bible and Scriptures, and its interpretation and translation.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 23rd May 2009, 12:25 PM
stranger's Avatar
Contributor

Member For 5 Years
View Profile Pic
 
Join Date: 12th October 2003
Location: wilderness
Posts: 5,439
Blessings: 299,205
My Mood Pensive
Blog Entries: 8
Reps: 30,132,520,090 (power: 0)
stranger has a reputation beyond reputestranger has a reputation beyond reputestranger has a reputation beyond reputestranger has a reputation beyond reputestranger has a reputation beyond reputestranger has a reputation beyond reputestranger has a reputation beyond reputestranger has a reputation beyond reputestranger has a reputation beyond reputestranger has a reputation beyond reputestranger has a reputation beyond reputestranger has a reputation beyond reputestranger has a reputation beyond reputestranger has a reputation beyond reputestranger has a reputation beyond repute
stranger has a reputation beyond reputestranger has a reputation beyond reputestranger has a reputation beyond reputestranger has a reputation beyond reputestranger has a reputation beyond reputestranger has a reputation beyond reputestranger has a reputation beyond reputestranger has a reputation beyond reputestranger has a reputation beyond reputestranger has a reputation beyond reputestranger has a reputation beyond reputestranger has a reputation beyond reputestranger has a reputation beyond reputestranger has a reputation beyond reputestranger has a reputation beyond repute
Love Question the OT translation...

A note about the background to the King James Version. After the Sephardic Jews were expelled from Spain by King Ferdinand V and Queen Isabella in 1492 A.D., the Jews settled in England and other countries where their presence was not readily appreciated or accepted. Some of the more fortunate Jews became court musicians and court jesters -- roles traditionally held by Jews throughout the Medieval Era. Rabbis, as well as all Jews, did not dare to present their Biblical knowledge to Christian theologians because of the popular idea that the Church had replaced the Jewish people as God's chosen people.
Therefore, the rabbis saw no need to offer their servicess to King Jame's translation committee, and the Royal Court of King James saw no relevance to asking the assistance of the local rabbis in making his translation from the Hebrew. After all, from the viewpoint of the Anglican Church, accuracy in the rendering of the Old Testament Scriptures was non-essential since Christ supposedly voided the Old Testament writings when He introduced the New Covenant.
For many years, Catholic and Protestant churches have allowed the assumption to persist that Hebrew is a "dead language" and that the religion of the Jews described in the New Testament is a "dead religion" of the ancient past, similar to the dead religions of classical Greece and classical Rome. Therefore the mainstream churches must accept the brunt of the responsibility for the lack of information which occurred within the WCG and CGI, and most other non-Jewish Christian church congregations here in America. The atmosphere in the Christian churches disuades congregational members from doing the "unthinkable" -- i.e., going to the Jewish sources and Jewish heritage to discover a more complete understanding of the original Apostles' writings and religious beliefs and practices.
The thought-form expression in Hebrew -- especially in ancient classical Hebrew -- is very dissimilar from our contemporary mode of American thinking. The cultural differentials between classical Hebrew and modern English have created vast misunderstandings since the majority of Christian churches usually try to figure out and interpret meanings of Hebrew words without researching into Hebrew verbal archaeology and seeking counsel from knowledgeable Jewish rabbis. Unlike English which has an approximate 550,000 vocabulary words for the expression of meaning and thought, Biblical classical Hebrew has only an approximate 8,100, and trying to determine how to best render this comparatively small regimen of words into the most appropriate English-language equivalents has always been a major plague to sincere Protestant linguists and Bible translators. This is why there exists so many translations of the Bible into English, and why each translation is worded somewhat differently from one another. Without seeking the counsel of the Jewish rabbis to whom Hebrew is their native language, Protestant translators have had to "guess" and "guess again" about how to properly render many Hebrew words and expressions into their best English equivalents. This is WHY it is so important for Bible translators to approach the translating of Hebrew from the perspective of Hebrew culture, rather than trying to impose Gentile culture and thought into the Biblical Hebrew meanings!
Back around 1611, the high level of anti-Semitism common in England prevented King Jame's translators from seeking assistance from the Jewish rabbis who were then living in England. During that period of British history, all Jewish rabbis living in England had to keep a low profile, and were expressly forbidden to attempt to introduce Jewish ideas into the national Christianity over which the Anglican Church and British Monarchy presided. As the result of this anti-Jewish bias constructed within British Christianity, many inaccuracies have been preserved by the "Authorized Version" (KJV) because of not properly obtaining from the rabbis the knowledge about meanings of Hebrew as applied in the ancient Israelite cultures!
Study in the Hebrew Text -- "...seven sabbaths shall be complete..."

Last edited by stranger; 23rd May 2009 at 02:58 PM.
Reply With Quote
Become a CF Site Supporter Today and Make These Ads Go Away!

  #2  
Old 24th May 2009, 12:12 AM
Senior Veteran

68 Gender: Male Married Faith: Christian Country: New Zealand Member For 5 Years
 
Join Date: 3rd August 2004
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 6,074
Blessings: 141,939
Reps: 86,572,420,472 (power: 86,572,432)
Johnnz has a reputation beyond reputeJohnnz has a reputation beyond reputeJohnnz has a reputation beyond reputeJohnnz has a reputation beyond reputeJohnnz has a reputation beyond reputeJohnnz has a reputation beyond reputeJohnnz has a reputation beyond reputeJohnnz has a reputation beyond reputeJohnnz has a reputation beyond reputeJohnnz has a reputation beyond reputeJohnnz has a reputation beyond reputeJohnnz has a reputation beyond reputeJohnnz has a reputation beyond reputeJohnnz has a reputation beyond reputeJohnnz has a reputation beyond repute
Johnnz has a reputation beyond reputeJohnnz has a reputation beyond reputeJohnnz has a reputation beyond reputeJohnnz has a reputation beyond reputeJohnnz has a reputation beyond reputeJohnnz has a reputation beyond reputeJohnnz has a reputation beyond reputeJohnnz has a reputation beyond reputeJohnnz has a reputation beyond reputeJohnnz has a reputation beyond reputeJohnnz has a reputation beyond reputeJohnnz has a reputation beyond reputeJohnnz has a reputation beyond reputeJohnnz has a reputation beyond reputeJohnnz has a reputation beyond repute
Modern translators include scholars who are recognised for their expertise in ancient cultures and languages, and who are very familiar with the Hebrew language and culture. There are also many Jewish Christians who bring their knowledge into doctrinal and literary issues. Many modern translations are thus more accurate and their translators are far more up to date in their understanding of the texts than the KJ translators were.

John
NZ
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 24th May 2009, 01:00 AM
twistedsketch's Avatar
Born Imperishable

Gender: Male Faith: Non-Denominational Party: US-Republican Country: United States Member For 5 Years
View Profile Pic
 
Join Date: 23rd February 2004
Posts: 18,620
Blessings: 77,466
My Mood Sad
Reps: 1,821,990,880,855,629 (power: 1,821,990,880,879)
twistedsketch has a reputation beyond reputetwistedsketch has a reputation beyond reputetwistedsketch has a reputation beyond reputetwistedsketch has a reputation beyond reputetwistedsketch has a reputation beyond reputetwistedsketch has a reputation beyond reputetwistedsketch has a reputation beyond reputetwistedsketch has a reputation beyond reputetwistedsketch has a reputation beyond reputetwistedsketch has a reputation beyond reputetwistedsketch has a reputation beyond reputetwistedsketch has a reputation beyond reputetwistedsketch has a reputation beyond reputetwistedsketch has a reputation beyond reputetwistedsketch has a reputation beyond repute
twistedsketch has a reputation beyond reputetwistedsketch has a reputation beyond reputetwistedsketch has a reputation beyond reputetwistedsketch has a reputation beyond reputetwistedsketch has a reputation beyond reputetwistedsketch has a reputation beyond reputetwistedsketch has a reputation beyond reputetwistedsketch has a reputation beyond reputetwistedsketch has a reputation beyond reputetwistedsketch has a reputation beyond reputetwistedsketch has a reputation beyond reputetwistedsketch has a reputation beyond reputetwistedsketch has a reputation beyond reputetwistedsketch has a reputation beyond reputetwistedsketch has a reputation beyond repute
Modern translations use the Dead Sea Scrolls and the Masoretic Text quite a bit. I'm also reminded of how much I enjoy using John Gill's commentary, since he did consult Rabbinical sources. It really makes the Gospels come alive, showing how Jesus "out-Jewed" the Jewish religious leaders in his teachings and debates.
__________________
Every word of God is flawless; He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him.
Do not add to His words, or He will rebuke you and prove you a liar.
- Proverbs 30:5-6

Sovereignty is not racism.

Last edited by twistedsketch; 30th May 2009 at 04:30 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 24th May 2009, 09:39 AM
stranger's Avatar
Contributor

Member For 5 Years
View Profile Pic
 
Join Date: 12th October 2003
Location: wilderness
Posts: 5,439
Blessings: 299,205
My Mood Pensive
Blog Entries: 8
Reps: 30,132,520,090 (power: 0)
stranger has a reputation beyond reputestranger has a reputation beyond reputestranger has a reputation beyond reputestranger has a reputation beyond reputestranger has a reputation beyond reputestranger has a reputation beyond reputestranger has a reputation beyond reputestranger has a reputation beyond reputestranger has a reputation beyond reputestranger has a reputation beyond reputestranger has a reputation beyond reputestranger has a reputation beyond reputestranger has a reputation beyond reputestranger has a reputation beyond reputestranger has a reputation beyond repute
stranger has a reputation beyond reputestranger has a reputation beyond reputestranger has a reputation beyond reputestranger has a reputation beyond reputestranger has a reputation beyond reputestranger has a reputation beyond reputestranger has a reputation beyond reputestranger has a reputation beyond reputestranger has a reputation beyond reputestranger has a reputation beyond reputestranger has a reputation beyond reputestranger has a reputation beyond reputestranger has a reputation beyond reputestranger has a reputation beyond reputestranger has a reputation beyond repute
Bible

Originally Posted by twistedsketch View Post
Modern translations use the Dead Sea Scrolls and the Masoretic Text quite a bit. I'm also reminded of how much I enjoy using John Gill's commentary, since he did consul Rabbinical sources. It really makes the Gospels come alive, showing how Jesus "out-Jewed" the Jewish religious leaders in his teachings and debates.
Yes, and Paul did as well , pointing out that the Jews ignore the new covenant in the Prophets [Jeremiah 31:31-34] as they continue to do ... more bizarrely modern Christianity does too , and for an encore so do 'Messianics' ... amazing to me that God is ignored in His major covenant with mankind by both religions who claim to believe in Him , astounding how He pulls that off when it is written clear as crystal [Heb 8:8-12, Jer 31:31-34]
The new covenant - Christian Forums

What use countless translations when people won't even read and understand the [undisputed, but unacknowledged ] four verses in both OT and NT that say what God has committed to about the first part of salvation of creation ????
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 30th May 2009, 09:58 AM
Nilla's Avatar
Ministry Team

31 Gender: Female Faith: Pentecostal Country: Sweden Member For 3 Years Prayer Team Commander
View Profile Pic
 
Join Date: 8th April 2006
Location: Sweden
Posts: 17,967
Blessings: 111,361
My Mood Tired
Blog Entries: 20
Reps: 1,187,035,702,221,574 (power: 1,187,035,702,242)
Nilla has a reputation beyond reputeNilla has a reputation beyond reputeNilla has a reputation beyond reputeNilla has a reputation beyond reputeNilla has a reputation beyond reputeNilla has a reputation beyond reputeNilla has a reputation beyond reputeNilla has a reputation beyond reputeNilla has a reputation beyond reputeNilla has a reputation beyond reputeNilla has a reputation beyond reputeNilla has a reputation beyond reputeNilla has a reputation beyond reputeNilla has a reputation beyond reputeNilla has a reputation beyond repute
Nilla has a reputation beyond reputeNilla has a reputation beyond reputeNilla has a reputation beyond reputeNilla has a reputation beyond reputeNilla has a reputation beyond reputeNilla has a reputation beyond reputeNilla has a reputation beyond reputeNilla has a reputation beyond reputeNilla has a reputation beyond reputeNilla has a reputation beyond reputeNilla has a reputation beyond reputeNilla has a reputation beyond reputeNilla has a reputation beyond reputeNilla has a reputation beyond reputeNilla has a reputation beyond repute

Mod Hat On


Thread moved from Christian Advice


Mod Hat Off
__________________
Do you love CF? We need more moderators, we need YOU! Pray about it and then go apply
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
. (To Ministry team of course.)


Prayer Team member - PM me if you have a Prayer Request

Bible Reading challenge in Singles:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 30th May 2009, 05:22 PM
stranger's Avatar
Contributor

Member For 5 Years
View Profile Pic
 
Join Date: 12th October 2003
Location: wilderness
Posts: 5,439
Blessings: 299,205
My Mood Pensive
Blog Entries: 8
Reps: 30,132,520,090 (power: 0)
stranger has a reputation beyond reputestranger has a reputation beyond reputestranger has a reputation beyond reputestranger has a reputation beyond reputestranger has a reputation beyond reputestranger has a reputation beyond reputestranger has a reputation beyond reputestranger has a reputation beyond reputestranger has a reputation beyond reputestranger has a reputation beyond reputestranger has a reputation beyond reputestranger has a reputation beyond reputestranger has a reputation beyond reputestranger has a reputation beyond reputestranger has a reputation beyond repute
stranger has a reputation beyond reputestranger has a reputation beyond reputestranger has a reputation beyond reputestranger has a reputation beyond reputestranger has a reputation beyond reputestranger has a reputation beyond reputestranger has a reputation beyond reputestranger has a reputation beyond reputestranger has a reputation beyond reputestranger has a reputation beyond reputestranger has a reputation beyond reputestranger has a reputation beyond reputestranger has a reputation beyond reputestranger has a reputation beyond reputestranger has a reputation beyond repute
Love James 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own sel

Why would the rules one obeys not be those of scripture and Christ ,but personal private interpretations? Does this scripture mean nothing to one about God ? :-

2 Peter 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Why ignore some scripture then, what does one gain, what does one lose ?

Luke 4:4 And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Return to Bibliology & Hermeneutics

Thread Tools
Display Modes



 
Become a CF Site Supporter Today and Make These Ads Go Away!
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:13 AM.


vBCredits v1.4 Copyright ©2007 - 2008, PixelFX Studios