Abraham and his son

ChristianPilot · #1 22nd May 2009, 07:40 PM

Hi everyone. I have to say it's been a very long time since I've been on these boards, but I've got a question and don't know where else to go. I did a lot of searching and couldn't find anything helpful, but I really didn't know where to look either.

Studying the Bible last night I came across a mention of the story of Abraham and Isaac and God's request for him to sacrifice his son. I had always just casually accepted this story without really reading too much into it, but last night I just had to follow up on it and read more about it. I read how God spoke to Abraham and told him to sacrifice his son, which he went to a mountain with the full intention of doing.

Now, obviously, God stopped Abraham when he knew he would sacrifice his only son for him. But this leaves me with a few questions...

1) Aren't human sacrifices a sin?

2) Doesn't Jesus teach that committing a sin with your heart is the same as committing a sin with your flesh?

3) Doesn't that mean that God commanded Abraham to sin?

This isn't as big as a trial of my faith as it might look, I'm sure that someone will be able to explain this to me. I just can't figure it out for myself!

ChristianPilot · #2 25th May 2009, 05:40 PM

Anybody? Please?

DaLeKo · #3 26th May 2009, 03:09 PM

Originally Posted by ChristianPilot

Hi everyone. I have to say it's been a very long time since I've been on these boards, but I've got a question and don't know where else to go. I did a lot of searching and couldn't find anything helpful, but I really didn't know where to look either.

Studying the Bible last night I came across a mention of the story of Abraham and Isaac and God's request for him to sacrifice his son. I had always just casually accepted this story without really reading too much into it, but last night I just had to follow up on it and read more about it. I read how God spoke to Abraham and told him to sacrifice his son, which he went to a mountain with the full intention of doing.

Now, obviously, God stopped Abraham when he knew he would sacrifice his only son for him. But this leaves me with a few questions...

1) Aren't human sacrifices a sin?

2) Doesn't Jesus teach that committing a sin with your heart is the same as committing a sin with your flesh?

3) Doesn't that mean that God commanded Abraham to sin?

This isn't as big as a trial of my faith as it might look, I'm sure that someone will be able to explain this to me. I just can't figure it out for myself!

Hi CP, first off, welcome back ..

It looks like you and I followed a similar path, joining back in early 2002 and then leaving here for a pretty lengthy time. That being said, let me quickly move on to try to give you an answer to your post.

Obviously God never intended to have Abraham sacrifice his son, it was a test of Abraham’s faith. Notice the hints in Genesis showing that Abraham, while perfectly obedient to God in the midst of this most difficult of trials, still fully believed God's promise to make a great nation of him THROUGH Isaac.

Abraham said to his young men, “Stay here with the donkey, and I and the lad will go over there; and we will worship and return to you.” Genesis 22:5

Abraham said, “God will provide for Himself the lamb for the burnt offering, my son.” Genesis 22:8a

And the author of Hebrews tells us:

By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises was offering up his only begotten son; it was he to whom it was said, “In Isaac your descendants shall be called.” He considered that God is able to raise people even from the dead, from which he also received him back as atype. Hebrews 11:17-19

As to your questions above, let me ask you a question in response. “What is sin?”

Abraham pre-dated Moses, so he didn’t have the Law and the Prophets (the Bible) to direct his steps. In fact, the only commands he had from God came directly from Him, yes? And although this act that God commanded Abraham to perform must have seemed nearly as unconscionable to him as it does to us, God was not instructing him to transgress a command or law previously given, was He? So again, in response to your questions above, “what is sin”?

I’m sorry I don’t have time to put together a better reply to your post right now (I keep getting side-tracked with non-CF life ..

, but hopefully this has helped a bit anyway!?)

A final point to remember is that God often uses situations such as this one to point to a future, Biblical, event. In this case, perhaps helping us understand just a little of what God Himself would soon be choosing to go through by sacrificing HIS one and only Son for our sakes!!

Yours and His,
David

ChristianPilot · #4 26th May 2009, 07:15 PM

David,
thanks very much for the reply. In response to your question, sin is defined as "an offense against religious or moral law". In my opinion a more general definition would be anything that places you further away from God (because the wages of sin is death, and death has been described as the absence of God).

So that being said, although Abraham was not removing himself from God (my definition of sin), I believe that he WAS violating a religious law even though it hadn't been written yet. I don't believe that the laws of God will ever change, which means that they always were laws and always will be whether they're written yet or not. Murder was still a sin even though "thou shalt not murder" hadn't been written yet.

Abraham obviously intended to offer his son as a human sacrifice: "Then he reached out his hand and took the knife to slay his son." Isn't that in itself a sin?

wildboar · #5 27th May 2009, 02:56 PM

Sin is always an attempt to rob glory from God. Sin always violates what God has told us to do. So in ordinary circumstances to go to war against another nation and slaughter all the women and children would be sin. But because God commanded it, it was not sin. God is not under the law or bound by the law. We are all His creation and He is free to do with us what He wills.

ChristianPilot · #6 27th May 2009, 09:17 PM

But God is a just God. How can he violate his own rules and still be just?

The only logical conclusion I can come to is that human sacrifices aren't a sin (they're pointless, but not a sin). Only human sacrifices to pagan gods are a sin. After all, wasn't Jesus a human sacrifice?

wildboar · #7 29th May 2009, 12:25 PM

Originally Posted by Christianpilot

But God is a just God. How can he violate his own rules and still be just?

The only logical conclusion I can come to is that human sacrifices aren't a sin (they're pointless, but not a sin). Only human sacrifices to pagan gods are a sin. After all, wasn't Jesus a human sacrifice?

God's laws are set up for people and not for Himself. It would be sinful and illegal for me to take the law into my own hands and execute a murderer who I believed was worthy of death. It is not sinful and illegal for the magistrate to execute a murderer. God is the giver of life and so it is within His right to take it away. He doesn't owe life to anybody. It would be sinful for anyone apart from God's direct command to sacrifice their child to Him or anyone else. God has already offered the perfect sacrifice in Christ.

ChristianPilot · #8 29th May 2009, 09:01 PM

Ok, I can understand that. But isn't it God's laws that require us to be forgiven before we can go to heaven? Couldn't he just bend those rules too and let everyone in?

I'm sure that God is just and right in the end, I'm just not getting how.

ChristianPilot · #9 4th June 2009, 07:21 PM

If anybody has any, I'm still interested in some more input on this. Thank you.

wildboar · #10 5th June 2009, 09:58 AM

Originally Posted by christianpilot

Ok, I can understand that. But isn't it God's laws that require us to be forgiven before we can go to heaven? Couldn't he just bend those rules too and let everyone in?

That's a completely different matter. We are obligated to obey God's laws, God is not. Also, it would be completely just for God to kill Isaac if He desired to because Isaac was a sinner. We are all worthy of eternal death and damnation.