Teen who auctioned her virginity for £8,000 may lose half. . .

Does anyone have any evidence that legalising prostitution did all the great things it was said it would do in places like Germany and the Netherlands?

I ask because the reports I found overwhelmingly suggest that it didn't. I recall reading a news story on Dutch plans to cut the number of brothels in Amsterdam in half partly because of this, and a few quick GoogleNews searches on prostitution in Amsterdam and prostitution in Germany return results on changes to prostitution laws and the negative effects of legalised prostitution, but very little on the reported positive effects of legalised prostitution. (Of course, that could just be because news sites tend to find those kinds of stories more newsworthy than those praising the positive effects that prostitution has had in countries where it has been legalised.) I also found this article on plans to make Amsterdam's prostitution law stricter. It also talks in brief about the general lack of the promised positive effects and the appearance of the actual negative effects of the legalisation of the practice.

There are also reports on the success of Sweden's (!) ban on prostitution. This Der Spiegel article, for example, talks about how the law has resulted in a sharp decline in the number of prostitutes and in the cases of human trafficking. (It also mentions an increase in the number of cases of rape, abuse and STDs among the remaining prostitutes.)

So, does anyone have anything that challenges these reports or the conclusions that someone who saw only them might draw? Or perhaps something that synthesises this information and reasonably concludes in prostitution's favour?

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Thanks be to God who always leads us in triumph in Christ and manifests through us the sweet aroma of the knowledge of Him in every place.
2 Corinthians 2: 14 [NASB]

I´m not sure the reason I am for legalizing prostitution is that I expect those "all the great things" you refer to without naming them, in the first place.

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Why I call myself a „non-believer“ or „atheist“:
I can´t relate to any of the god concepts I´m familiar with so far.
Either I´m not convinced by the concept, or
– although not having a problem with the worldview itself -
I see no reason to call one of its elements „God“:
There are already more precise, more common, less loaded and less likely to be misunderstood terms for these elements.
E.g. I prefer to call nature „nature“, the universe „universe“ and everything „everything“.

I had in mind protecting prostitutes from the abuses that seem an inseparable part illegal prostitution, allowing prostitutes to easily seek help, and making prostitution safe for prostitutes and their clients. You talked about the rights of prostitutes. I'm not one arguing for the legalisation of prostitution so I might be missing some of them; perhaps you can name other great things that you and the Germans who advocated your prostitution law expected and argued for.

__________________
Thanks be to God who always leads us in triumph in Christ and manifests through us the sweet aroma of the knowledge of Him in every place.
2 Corinthians 2: 14 [NASB]

I am not proud of it but not ashamed either to say that I have visited legal establishments that sell sex in Greece. I have walked in the red light district of Amsterdam and talked to a few Dutch people about prostitution. Also read a few articles on the subject and this is what I have to say:

Love it or hate it prostitution WILL happen. When there is a will there is a way and if you believe the news the way can be particularly brutal. Now I have met prostitutes that loved what they did and probably acted out of their own free will which is awesome. I have met others who saw it as a job and felt as trapped as the rest of the working corpses that walk the world only when they say: "I was .....ed by my boss today" they mean it. And then there are others, the ones that have a blank stare and the room smells of beatings, tears, rape, drug use and all the other beautiful things that go on at night when all the good folks sleep. The problem is that even if you find such a place and want to report it the police will either come to the establisment to "have fun" and collect money or collect money.

My problem with prostitution is not that it happens, there are genuine people who cannot get sex any other way, there are others who like spending time with professionals and even those who seek something different from their wives and without prostitutes there would be an affair and/or possible divorce (I know not the best of situations but it happens.) The problem is that because our conservative society wants nothing to do with prostitution the women involved are completely alone and open to abuse by normal pimps, cop pimps, weird customers, drug dealers etc etc. It is so funny that the very people who go to church or stand in the coffee shop lecturing others on moral purity are the same who at night go on a prowl for a young slim piece of meat to have sex with. The same people who stand there and tell others that prostitutes are evil and will be punished at night become the punishers. They don't wait for God to punish they rape them themselves. And when all is said and done its the prostitute's fault for unraveling the web of society women whose men visit these establishments are the very first who blame the women in there and not their rapist hubbys.

Prostitution is a wound covered up by a dirty cloth. And at the moment legal or illegal it is festering. I believe that legalization is not enough prostitution needs to be exposed to the world and the world should look at their less fortunate daughters and embrace them no matter what they have done or will do for money. As I said I have walked those roads at night, they are not pretty, I have heard good things about Germany so far and I hope that they are true but in other parts of the world the situation is a mix between sad and aweful.

As for the Christians who feel appauled by the acts that go on at night, it is their duty to either make them stop or at least stop the rapes. That is not going to happen if they are illegal or barely legal. Christians should open churches amongst the brothels, they should be there and guard these women and make sure that nothing bad happens while they work. At least that is what I believe Jesus would do.

Now on topic... 50%!!!1!!111!!! WHATTT!?!?!?! That is robbery man! But on the other hand if more virgins followed the same path think of all the schools and hospitals we could build! A couple of years back I heard of a group that had sex for trees, we should probably start a "Pop your cherry for better schools" project. I am reminded of ancient Greece when it was an honor for rich virgins who served at a temple to lose their virginity to the highest bidder in order to collect money for the temple. Interstingly the Greek word for prostitute is Ierodoulos meaning Holy-slave/worker.

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Do I have to? Examine my points again and I think you'll find they are all based on common sense:

- Prostitutes are subject to a lot of abuse due to human trafficking, and being at the mercy of their pimps. You have said this yourself in your post.

- Many prostitutes suffer from veneral diseases

- Many prostitutes are drug addicts

- If prostitution was regulated (Note regulation != just legalised and left) by the government, government monitoring would be able to cut down the amount of abuse of prostitutes, enforce the use of protection against STDs, and give help to people who are in need of it.


This is supposed to be a debate, not an analogy contest.

Does something have to help absolutely everyone to be worthwhile? I never said that regulation of the industry would help address the emotional issues or drug problems of the workers. I said it would help cut down on human trafficking, abuse of sex workers, and transmission of STDs.

Something else would have to be done about the drug problems and emotional issues, I agree. I humbly suggest greater investment in education and leisure facilities for disadvantaged areas.

I have never been dishonest in a debate on these forums. Please don't pigeonhole me.

I think we should be able to see a picture of the businessman. If the girl's picture is out as a prostitute, shouldn't his be out as the john?

On a second note, she's the one who slept with the guy. I think she should be able to keep her money.

__________________

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“Much unhappiness has come into the world because of bewilderment and things left unsaid.” - Fyodor Dostoyevsky

Originally Posted by quatona

Source?

Bedroom Economics in Germany by Thomas Sowell -- Capitalism Magazine

The UK Telegraph article dated Jan 30, 2005, " 'If you don't take a job as a prostitute, we can stop your benefits' " (observe the title was in already in quotes) stated that the waitress faced the possibility of a cut in her benefits under German law, and not that she actually had this happen to her.

A 25-year-old waitress who turned down a job providing "sexual services'' at a brothel in Berlin faces possible cuts to her unemployment benefit under laws introduced this year. [emphasis added]

Prostitution was legalised in Germany just over two years ago and brothel owners – who must pay tax and employee health insurance – were granted access to official databases of jobseekers...Under Germany's welfare reforms, any woman under 55 who has been out of work for more than a year can be forced to take an available job – including in the sex industry – or lose her unemployment benefit. Last month German unemployment rose for the 11th consecutive month to 4.5 million, taking the number out of work to its highest since reunification in 1990. The government had considered making brothels an exception on moral grounds, but decided that it would be too difficult to distinguish them from bars.

As a result, job centres must treat employers looking for a prostitute in the same way as those looking for a dental nurse. When the waitress looked into suing the job centre, she found out that it had not broken the law. Job centres that refuse to penalise people who turn down a job by cutting their benefits face legal action from the potential employer. "There is now nothing in the law to stop women from being sent into the sex industry," said Merchthild Garweg, a lawyer from Hamburg who specialises in such cases. "The new regulations say that working in the sex industry is not immoral any more, and so jobs cannot be turned down without a risk to benefits."

... Prostitution was legalised in Germany in 2002 because the government believed that this would help to combat trafficking in women and cut links to organised crime.

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Since the Torah is a finite book expressing the will of an infinite God, many lessons must be derivable from each passage from all the infinite angles.

snopes.com: Brothel Jobs in Germany

Even after 2002 legalization, the techicalities of all the legal rights of prostitution is still up for determiation..

__________________
Since the Torah is a finite book expressing the will of an infinite God, many lessons must be derivable from each passage from all the infinite angles.

It helps, understanding more then the common sense you're currently using would only be a benefit.
Right but that common sense is based on what you currently know and have experienced. So my question is more to ask, what have you experienced?
Which would make you so understanding of the situation that you know it should be legal?
I said, they're lives are put on the line on a daily basis.
Most prostitutes don't use pimps, unless it is legalized a pimp isn't a common theme. Most of the prostitutes who do it for money due to mental issues use a madam and work in groups. While drug addicts simply go out there and work until they get their next $20 for the next rock.
STDs are bound to happen regardless. People are well aware of HIV and AIDS which is a spokesmen for condoms in and of itself.
Drug addicts don't care to spend the money on them but the women with mental issues often make sure they go on and take the time to buy them.
If you knew the numbers of prostitutes that already walk the streets then you would understand that if safe sex practices weren't already in effect then the US would have an AIDS epidemic on it's hands.
I often get the feeling that these numbers wouldn't be so great if people stepped outside of their comfort zones and left their ignorance of reality behind long enough to see reality for what it is.
Right, and the point was to show that your analogy was lacking.
No it doesn't. So what makes jail so bad? Would you yourself help make things better? I get the feeling many people don't as stated above, things would be different if they had.
The women with mental issues often get help after a visit in jail.
Some, a very small amount; of drug addicts seek help but the percentage being low is due to the fact that very few people are willing to step up and do anything about it.
So I have to ask again, what experience do you have?
I think at the most it would help cut down on some of the violence.
Prostitution is illegal now and all cops have to do is catch them and they quite often don't bother do to that. So I doubt they would jump in to arrest some guy who's abusive toward the women or find the guy.
I'm all for that idea. I think the government should provide free education in regards to higher education.

__________________
I'd be a atheist if it weren't for God.

Atheism is a non-prophet organization.

"Here lies an atheist; all dressed up and no place to go." Epitaph in Maryland cemetery

I tried atheism for a while, but my faith just wasn’t strong enough.


Those who go to Heaven ride on a pass and enter into blessings that they never earned, but all who go to hell pay their own way.
--John R. Rice

Atheist: The only people on the planet who can turn "Nothing" into "I know what there is to know of nothing."

Okay, you seem to have a lot of experience with the situation in the US. I'm not going to claim any great experience with prostitutes. Most of my information is from watching documentaries (I trust the BBC for objective and comprehensive journalism). Maybe the situation is different in Europe because we are closer to the countries that traditionally provide a lot of sex workers by human traficking, but the programmes I watched said that human trafficking was a major problem. They also said that the migrant workers were kept in line by threats against their families back home ,and also by the use of drugs. I forget what the estimated figure for trafficked sex workers in London was, but it was a five figure sum. And that's just in one city. The programme also said that many workers are forced to have sex without condoms by their pimps, because the customers are willing to pay extra.

As I said before, I'm not in favour of just legalising prostitution and just leaving it at that, I think that would be disastrous, and would still lead to exploitation of women. I think that if the industry is legalised, it should only take place in licensed premises, which are regularly inspected, and the welfare of the workers monitored, by government officials.

All other factors aside, would you not agree that a system like this would cut down on human trafficking for the sex trade, and the violence and abuse that accompanies it?

Does that make you a "liberal" then?