I have 'Prayers that Availeth Much' but haven't read it in years. I might have even given it to my sister.
It really helped me when I was younger and didn't know how to pray. But I never felt comfortable 'praying' those prayers...cause I really was just reading them. I suppose sometimes I would read them, then pray basically the same thing in my own words.
OTOH, how many of us pray the same prayers Paul prayed?
One book that helped me more than any other was 'The Master is Calling' by Lynne Hammond. I know that's not a book OF prayers, but it helped me in understanding prayer.
__________________ Every job is a self-portrait of the person who does it, autograph your work with excellence.
I became a Christian in 1996, so I find it amusing that you would consider me old school, VW!
I consider that I want to learn as much as possible about the best part of anything. If you listen to the Kenneth Copeland sermons of the first Believer's Conventions, TL Osborn, the Hagin Campmeetings of the 1980s, there you have the Word of God preached with clarity, with confidence and with balance.
A lot of TV ministers have produced a lot of hype and the so-called Third Wave has not helped matters with its non-Pentecostal theology, works-based pragmaticism and use of circumstances to determine the will of God (if you pray and God heals, God wanted to heal, if you pray and God doesn't he doesn't) which has infected the Word of Faith movement in my opinion.
I listen to few others than Keith Moore, Andrew Wommack and Bob Yandian nowadays. They all preach without hype, make it practical and as far as I can see preach a balanced message.
Blessings,
Ben
__________________ Never let experiences or circumstances determine how you interpret the Word.
Stand on the Word and change your experiences and circumstances.
I have 'Prayers that Availeth Much' but haven't read it in years. I might have even given it to my sister.
It really helped me when I was younger and didn't know how to pray. But I never felt comfortable 'praying' those prayers...cause I really was just reading them. I suppose sometimes I would read them, then pray basically the same thing in my own words.
OTOH, how many of us pray the same prayers Paul prayed?
One book that helped me more than any other was 'The Master is Calling' by Lynne Hammond. I know that's not a book OF prayers, but it helped me in understanding prayer.
Your experience is definitely similar to mine concerning the books. However, I have known people to pray from those books, myself included, and God has actually answered the prayers. I suppose that God looks at the heart and the faith rather than whether He feels that He is being read to, or as Zzub said earlier, He is moved when we apply certain faith principles regardless.
I still give/sell the books on our church book table since many of the people who attend our fellowship are new to this faith thing. Most (if not all) are either brand new Christians who were saved under our ministry and have not been exposed to any Bible teaching or they are people who came from churches that taught absolutely nothing, especially how to pray and get prayers answered.
And yes, I have prayed the prayers of Paul from Ephesians and Colossians many times, especially when interceding for others. I learned to do that in the 80s reading Hagin's book, "The Authority of the Believer." Seems slightly different though when you are reading to God directly from the Bible itself
__________________ Let the Scriptures Determine Your Theology, Do Not Read Your Theology into Scripture.
What helps me think about it is this: we live in the kingdom of God. The king of this Kingdom is our Father.
I can fellowship with Him at any time. He is my best friend, my Father, my Confident, my inspirer, a wondrous Being. I could not read a pre-written prayer when I relate to Him at times like this any more than I could use a script to tell my wife I love her.
However, when it comes to the business of the kingdom there is a certain protocol that has to be established. Whether I write the prayer myself or use a contract that someone else has written, this is a perfectly acceptable time to use a written prayer as I am creating a record for the purposes of the kingdom of what the King agrees to do for me in Christ.
Hope this helps someone,
Blessings,
Ben
__________________ Never let experiences or circumstances determine how you interpret the Word.
Stand on the Word and change your experiences and circumstances.
I became a Christian in 1996, so I find it amusing that you would consider me old school, VW!
I consider that I want to learn as much as possible about the best part of anything. If you listen to the Kenneth Copeland sermons of the first Believer's Conventions, TL Osborn, the Hagin Campmeetings of the 1980s, there you have the Word of God preached with clarity, with confidence and with balance.
A lot of TV ministers have produced a lot of hype and the so-called Third Wave has not helped matters with its non-Pentecostal theology, works-based pragmaticism and use of circumstances to determine the will of God (if you pray and God heals, God wanted to heal, if you pray and God doesn't he doesn't) which has infected the Word of Faith movement in my opinion.
I listen to few others than Keith Moore, Andrew Wommack and Bob Yandian nowadays. They all preach without hype, make it practical and as far as I can see preach a balanced message.
Blessings,
Ben
Oh sorry about that Zzub. Thought you were as old as I was. I became a Christian in 1984 but only was exposed to faith teaching about 8 months later. Before then I was in an African American church where people took turns preaching (mostly the hoopin'-hollerin' kind).
Back in those days I listened (besides my own pastors) mostly to Fred Price, Kenneth Hagin and Jerry Savelle (didn't even listen hardly to any Copeland sermons until the 90s). Aside from these main WoF teachers my spiritual diet in the 80s also consisted of Paul (now David) Yongghi Cho, Lester Sumrall, Derek Prince, David Alsobrook, Watchman Nee, E. W. Kenyon, F. B. Meyer, and Andrew Murray. Occasionally I may have read a book by one of the other known WoF preachers of that time, but those were the foundational teachers of my spiritual (and physical) youth.
Back in those days the Word of God was definitely emphasized and taught with clarity. Rhema Campmeetings were the big thing back then (and before the racial thing happened with Hagin Jr.'s ridiculous remarks, Dr. Price was always usually the featured speaker) and people who went to them always came back very refreshed.
The Word was emphasized strongly back then and we would not do or practuce anything that we could not find a valid Biblical principle for. Our motto back then was "What does the Word say." That is also why the Prayers that Availeth Much books became popular. They were Word-Based and soaked in it. After one young lady in our church gave a testimony of how she received an answer to prayer after praying from that book, my pastor had me order a whole box load of them and he gave them away to everyone in the church. We were seeing lots of miracles and answers to prayer back then.
I did see a shift in the Faith Movement in the 90s with some of the in-fighting and splits, the extremes that crept in, the hyper-criticism that led to many WoFers defecting from the movement (including a number of pastors) and many of those actually becoming CRITICS. I don't fault them too much since I almost became tempted in this regard (That's another story within itself).
__________________ Let the Scriptures Determine Your Theology, Do Not Read Your Theology into Scripture.
What helps me think about it is this: we live in the kingdom of God. The king of this Kingdom is our Father.
I can fellowship with Him at any time. He is my best friend, my Father, my Confident, my inspirer, a wondrous Being. I could not read a pre-written prayer when I relate to Him at times like this any more than I could use a script to tell my wife I love her.
However, when it comes to the business of the kingdom there is a certain protocol that has to be established. Whether I write the prayer myself or use a contract that someone else has written, this is a perfectly acceptable time to use a written prayer as I am creating a record for the purposes of the kingdom of what the King agrees to do for me in Christ.
Hope this helps someone,
Blessings,
Ben
Actually, it helps me a lot. Thanks Zzub.
__________________ Let the Scriptures Determine Your Theology, Do Not Read Your Theology into Scripture.
troy, it is great to see you back on here occasionally, so much unbelief & doubt run rampant on this site, that i don't often post here. so when one such as you ,who is full of faith, & releasing the great resurrection power of the almighty lord jesus christ by daring to speak it out of his mouth in agreement with god's word, puts a post on here,it is like dynamite blasting the futile, dry & barren ground of unbelief & religious helplessness.
i do use some of the books you have mentioned, for me, i use them more for meditation purposes, bringing my soul into harmony with what god has already done in me, building into my mind, by the power that is released when i speak out his word from the scripture prayers in these books the realities of the "christ life'.
thus by building his word into my thought life, i am like a mighty military weapon, at the ready, the trigger pulled, the fuse lit, the launch code counting, exploding into this atmosphere & life, the awesome life & unlimited resources of god through the "great resurrected christ" himself.
here is a prayer from the book of ephesians chpt. 1, that i have put together myself, from numerous translations,
"i pray father, that you will give me wisdom to see clearly & really understand who christ is & all that he has done for me. i pray that my heart will be able to understand the full nature of your calling & it's aim & expectation, what is actually mine now & in the future because of what jesus has done for me. and how very great is his power at work in me, since i believed. this power working in me is the same mighty strength which you father, used when you raised christ from the death & seated him at your right side in the heavenly world. there christ rules above all heavenly rulers, authorities, powers, lords. he is supreme in every way, above all control in this world & the one to come. in addition to all creation, christ also has full authority over the church, to give it direction. father, you have placed everything under his feet, his church, his body, without which the christ is incomplete as god's cosmic authority. as the body of the christ functioning in human history, the church is the full expression & historic content of the christ, the christ is the full expression of god, & the church the full expression & fulfillment of the christ. and the church is his body. the church has everything christ has. and he has everything everywhere."
when we pray the prayers of the apostle paul, we will receive the (exact) same revelation that he received from the holy spirit, the x-ray behind the scene of christ's redemptive work, he for us, we there "in him', the first adam dying there at calvary, & being done away with by god, & the new man, the last adam, rising up out of hell, the grave & all the glory of god being poured out into us by our union "in christ", filled with all the fullness of god himself.
by the way troy, how is it going with you & the church your family has started.
troy, pray for me, as it grows stronger & clearer in my heart, that i also must lay the foundations of a church, & build up the people of god , by leading his sheep, his people, by caring for them, & teaching them the mighty glory of god that NOW fills them completely by there being "IN CHRST"
I have the book Germaine Copeland titled "Prayers that Availeth Much."
I have used the prayers before and there is a site on the web where you can search and find prayers that are helpful to your situation from that book itself... often if someone is really struggling in an area I will find a prayer and scriptures for them from that book and copy it from the website and send it to them.. People need to know what GOD says.. and those prayers are grouped together in sections and all the scriptures are listed along with the prayer written out..
I don't think meditating on GODS word could ever be repetitive.. for HE HIMSELF said.. meditate on the word day and night so that you could be a tree planted by streams of water.. I do tend to sometimes change the content of the prayer that is prayed.. make it more personal.. more saying it as done already.. speaking of those things that be not as though they are.. which sometimes the prayers do not come across that way..
I think it is how you come at it.. the state of your heart.. how many times have I been learning Psalm 91 lately.. every day I say it as a prayer but also as a reminder of my posistion in GOD speaking of it as how it is even if I don't feel it.. and every day something stands out.. differently to me.. and I get more comfort and encouragement..
Lately it has just simply been the words.. I am healed.. although you will not find that exactly in the word.. that GOD is the LORD who healeth thee.. so I am just taking that part.. I am healed and saying it over and over.. the great joy it brings to me more then ever before.. It really really does pay us to keep saying what GOD says.. and pray what says.. .. Not looking at the circumstances but straight at GODS word..
Faith does come by hearing and hearing by GODS word..
Long before I knew about WOF.. I started praying Phil 4:6-7. going over and over it.. and I got GODS peace.. the out of this world peace.. Oh wow.. life changing..
As we know and believe.. GODS word works and is absolute truth.. and the more we know it.. the more wonderfully it works for us and we get that wonderful joy GOD promised.. our joy is made complete.. thank you for the reminder of this book.. I must get it out again soon!!
__________________
Feed the people around you with your smiles, and your face will become like Christ's inexhaustible basket of bread that fed thousands of people. Your face can feed people hungry for love in their life or at that very moment. "There is more hunger for love and appreciation in this world than for bread." - Mother Teresa ♥
troy, it is great to see you back on here occasionally, so much unbelief & doubt run rampant on this site, that i don't often post here. so when one such as you ,who is full of faith, & releasing the great resurrection power of the almighty lord jesus christ by daring to speak it out of his mouth in agreement with god's word, puts a post on here,it is like dynamite blasting the futile, dry & barren ground of unbelief & religious helplessness.
i do use some of the books you have mentioned, for me, i use them more for meditation purposes, bringing my soul into harmony with what god has already done in me, building into my mind, by the power that is released when i speak out his word from the scripture prayers in these books the realities of the "christ life'.
thus by building his word into my thought life, i am like a mighty military weapon, at the ready, the trigger pulled, the fuse lit, the launch code counting, exploding into this atmosphere & life, the awesome life & unlimited resources of god through the "great resurrected christ" himself.
here is a prayer from the book of ephesians chpt. 1, that i have put together myself, from numerous translations,
"i pray father, that you will give me wisdom to see clearly & really understand who christ is & all that he has done for me. i pray that my heart will be able to understand the full nature of your calling & it's aim & expectation, what is actually mine now & in the future because of what jesus has done for me. and how very great is his power at work in me, since i believed. this power working in me is the same mighty strength which you father, used when you raised christ from the death & seated him at your right side in the heavenly world. there christ rules above all heavenly rulers, authorities, powers, lords. he is supreme in every way, above all control in this world & the one to come. in addition to all creation, christ also has full authority over the church, to give it direction. father, you have placed everything under his feet, his church, his body, without which the christ is incomplete as god's cosmic authority. as the body of the christ functioning in human history, the church is the full expression & historic content of the christ, the christ is the full expression of god, & the church the full expression & fulfillment of the christ. and the church is his body. the church has everything christ has. and he has everything everywhere."
when we pray the prayers of the apostle paul, we will receive the (exact) same revelation that he received from the holy spirit, the x-ray behind the scene of christ's redemptive work, he for us, we there "in him', the first adam dying there at calvary, & being done away with by god, & the new man, the last adam, rising up out of hell, the grave & all the glory of god being poured out into us by our union "in christ", filled with all the fullness of god himself.
by the way troy, how is it going with you & the church your family has started.
troy, pray for me, as it grows stronger & clearer in my heart, that i also must lay the foundations of a church, & build up the people of god , by leading his sheep, his people, by caring for them, & teaching them the mighty glory of god that NOW fills them completely by there being "IN CHRST"
your brother "in christ' scott
Good to hear from you Scott.
The church is going well but, as it goes with all church plants, we have our challenges. But God is good. When you are read y toplant your church send me an e-mail.
__________________ Let the Scriptures Determine Your Theology, Do Not Read Your Theology into Scripture.
I have the book Germaine Copeland titled "Prayers that Availeth Much."
I have used the prayers before and there is a site on the web where you can search and find prayers that are helpful to your situation from that book itself... often if someone is really struggling in an area I will find a prayer and scriptures for them from that book and copy it from the website and send it to them.. People need to know what GOD says.. and those prayers are grouped together in sections and all the scriptures are listed along with the prayer written out..
I don't think meditating on GODS word could ever be repetitive.. for HE HIMSELF said.. meditate on the word day and night so that you could be a tree planted by streams of water.. I do tend to sometimes change the content of the prayer that is prayed.. make it more personal.. more saying it as done already.. speaking of those things that be not as though they are.. which sometimes the prayers do not come across that way..
I think it is how you come at it.. the state of your heart.. how many times have I been learning Psalm 91 lately.. every day I say it as a prayer but also as a reminder of my posistion in GOD speaking of it as how it is even if I don't feel it.. and every day something stands out.. differently to me.. and I get more comfort and encouragement..
Lately it has just simply been the words.. I am healed.. although you will not find that exactly in the word.. that GOD is the LORD who healeth thee.. so I am just taking that part.. I am healed and saying it over and over.. the great joy it brings to me more then ever before.. It really really does pay us to keep saying what GOD says.. and pray what says.. .. Not looking at the circumstances but straight at GODS word..
Faith does come by hearing and hearing by GODS word..
Long before I knew about WOF.. I started praying Phil 4:6-7. going over and over it.. and I got GODS peace.. the out of this world peace.. Oh wow.. life changing..
As we know and believe.. GODS word works and is absolute truth.. and the more we know it.. the more wonderfully it works for us and we get that wonderful joy GOD promised.. our joy is made complete.. thank you for the reminder of this book.. I must get it out again soon!!
Good post. Thanks Peacechild4.
__________________ Let the Scriptures Determine Your Theology, Do Not Read Your Theology into Scripture.
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