Hi everyone. I have been thinking about this subject for many years now and have formulated my own theory about all this speculation of end times events, as interpreted from the book of Revelation.
I warn you however, it's very different. I doubt you've ever heard a theory like mine before. And some of you may be offended. But let me explain myself first.
For literally thousands of years, people have been predicting the "end of the world" and the second coming. Complete with specific dates and times. And of course they have been all wrong.
I have been noticing that even the popular media is very familiar with popular Christian end times speculations. For eg, there is a Simpsons episode where they take off Tim LeHaye's 'Left Behind' with their own:
"Left below".
It features the righteous going to heaven by way of the rapture and all the people on earth "left below" to suffer through the tribulation. All non Christians know at least a little of popular Christian end times theology. Whether Christian or non Christian, everyone has heard of the AntiChrist, one world government, 666 the number of the beast (eg, the Iron Maiden album), the mark of the beast etc. All these things are popular features of cartoons, movies, documentaries, sitcoms, youtube, rock bands.
I have no doubt that all these popular Christian speculations about the end of the world are all false. Particularly as there are so many interpretations of it. However, I have come to the conclusion that this continual barrage of all these end times speculations is causing people to become over familiar with all these themes.
And what will be the outcome of all this? Simply this. As the entire world continues to hear about the end of the world, the antiChrist, 666, the mark of the beast etc and as all these things DON'T come to pass, the world will be turned off Christianity. Because the world will see that these things are not happening. Like I said before, when you see Tim LeHaye parodied in The Simpsons, you know the message has become saturated.
I firmly believe that all these end times speculations are being used by the enemy to turn the world cold to the gospel. That there will be a massive falling away and all this massive barrage of Christian end times speculation is one of the ways that it will happen.
Like I said, it's unconventional but I firmly believe that. Make of it (and me) as you will.
I might as well be overly blunt about this and say that people realizing that all that dispensationalist trash is false is for the better - there's a long history of people having 'wrong' beliefs about various religions (Christianity only being one that it's happened to), and when they see that most of the rest of the religion never followed those crackpot ideas they move on and the actual membership is unfazed, nor do I think those that weren't already dead-set against whatever religion it is will avoid it either. Those unable to cope with the fact their beliefs were misguided get caught in the crossfire, yes, but even a large number of them continue adhering to the religion they always followed, and just readjust their beliefs in light of what's happened.
That kind of end times belief is most visible in the United States, some of the aspects of it are almost totally exclusive to the US evangelical/fundamentalist camp (particularly the pieces about one world government conspiracies and the anti-European sentiments that usually accompany them). Moreover, even in the US, it's still a mixed bag because not all churches here fall into that demographic or have anything to do with that theological framework. Not to mention that the state of the US' pop-culture churches doesn't equal the state of Christianity itself. Maybe it represents the hollow, consumeristic, feel-good, milk-fed Modern Church, but that's not representative of Christianity either.
About using those differences to drive us apart, when hasn't that been the case? You only need to look at numerous other contentious theologies and groups that make rifts between believers or make believers look like they need to be locked up in the loony bin. But I still trust that the vast majority out there are able to understand that a particularly vocal minority isn't representative of all believers.
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Is the pain of not knowing, worth the price of saying nothing?
I might as well be overly blunt about this and say that people realizing that all that dispensationalist trash is false is for the better - there's a long history of people having 'wrong' beliefs about various religions (Christianity only being one that it's happened to), and when they see that most of the rest of the religion never followed those crackpot ideas they move on and the actual membership is unfazed, nor do I think those that weren't already dead-set against whatever religion it is will avoid it either. Those unable to cope with the fact their beliefs were misguided get caught in the crossfire, yes, but even a large number of them continue adhering to the religion they always followed, and just readjust their beliefs in light of what's happened.
That kind of end times belief is most visible in the United States, some of the aspects of it are almost totally exclusive to the US evangelical/fundamentalist camp (particularly the pieces about one world government conspiracies and the anti-European sentiments that usually accompany them). Moreover, even in the US, it's still a mixed bag because not all churches here fall into that demographic or have anything to do with that theological framework. Not to mention that the state of the US' pop-culture churches doesn't equal the state of Christianity itself. Maybe it represents the hollow, consumeristic, feel-good, milk-fed Modern Church, but that's not representative of Christianity either.
About using those differences to drive us apart, when hasn't that been the case? You only need to look at numerous other contentious theologies and groups that make rifts between believers or make believers look like they need to be locked up in the loony bin. But I still trust that the vast majority out there are able to understand that a particularly vocal minority isn't representative of all believers.
Hey thanks for that. I sometimes have felt that I was the only one to feel this way. I honestly feel that in decades to come, the entire world is going to grow cynical towards Christianity constantly speculating about the one world government, the rapture, the antiChrist etc. And when the rest of the world sees that the end is not coming, I feel that many will have turned away.
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hey, here's another support here. I agree with you. But I dont' believe in end time anymore. I believe there's deeper meaning that most do not understand but just reading the surface. and that there is no end, the world will continue forever. for there is not measure and match for God that heaven will take eternity to fill.
I might as well be overly blunt about this and say that people realizing that all that dispensationalist trash is false is for the better - there's a long history of people having 'wrong' beliefs about various religions (Christianity only being one that it's happened to), and when they see that most of the rest of the religion never followed those crackpot ideas they move on and the actual membership is unfazed, nor do I think those that weren't already dead-set against whatever religion it is will avoid it either. Those unable to cope with the fact their beliefs were misguided get caught in the crossfire, yes, but even a large number of them continue adhering to the religion they always followed, and just readjust their beliefs in light of what's happened.
That kind of end times belief is most visible in the United States, some of the aspects of it are almost totally exclusive to the US evangelical/fundamentalist camp (particularly the pieces about one world government conspiracies and the anti-European sentiments that usually accompany them). Moreover, even in the US, it's still a mixed bag because not all churches here fall into that demographic or have anything to do with that theological framework. Not to mention that the state of the US' pop-culture churches doesn't equal the state of Christianity itself. Maybe it represents the hollow, consumeristic, feel-good, milk-fed Modern Church, but that's not representative of Christianity either.
About using those differences to drive us apart, when hasn't that been the case? You only need to look at numerous other contentious theologies and groups that make rifts between believers or make believers look like they need to be locked up in the loony bin. But I still trust that the vast majority out there are able to understand that a particularly vocal minority isn't representative of all believers.
Best post ever especially the bold line
I have to say I support the OP's position, although I have yet to develop a rigid idea of eschatology.
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The Orthodox Church believes that "the beast" and the "666" number of his name is speaking about the Emperor Domitian, and the persecution of the Christian faith. In other words, a lot of the book of Revelation has already happened.
I agree with what you said that these "end times" teachings are turning people away from Christianity because this message is oversaturated, and not coming to pass.
Check out what the Orthodox believe about Revelation here:
There really is a lot of unnecessary fear and anxiety surrounding the whole 'end-times' theme. I suppose for good reason in that, as the OP and several others have pointed out, the mainstream has for the most part, completely missed the whole point of the Book of Revelation. A simple, balanced introduction to how to read and understand scripture is all that would be require for most people to 'get it' a whole lot better than they do now and this goes for mainstream media, pop culture, biblical fundamentalists and Christians of all flavors.
I spend much of my time teaching this stuff to adults coming into the faith. When speaking of the Bible and Salvation History I start from the standpoint of the scripture's two 'bookends' - Genesis and Revelation. The first two chapters of Genesis tell us what God's desire for creation and humanity was "in the beginning", we're painted a picture of the Heavenly Kingdom, of eternal life in perfect relationship with God and each-other. Whenever anyone asks me "what does God want?" I always point them in some form to this idea...to live in right relationship with us always. Revelation's message is even simpler (though hidden deeply in frightening imagery that was used for very good reason given the cultural circumstances of the time)...at the end of it all; God gets what God wants.
Far from being a message of doom and gloom, the intent of Revelation was and is to speak to a people who feel trapped in a hopeless time, who feel that their every action, every thought, is bringing them closer and closer to death; a people for whom (under Diocletian and the insane persecutions of the Roman Empire) the world seemed to be coming to an end. Revelation speaks to every man woman and child who finds themselves in a world without hope and says; "Do not be afraid. Do not ever forget. Sin and death do not have the final word in this story, I am the author, I am the Word, I am the lamb...When all has seemed to pass away...I am."
God wins.
Alleluiah!
Two of my Favorite Revelation Quick facts;
1) Original Greek Title: Apokálypsis Two words - Apo='to remove' kalypsis='the veil'...specifically the placental veil or caul covering the face of some newborns - a veil that must be removed for the child to live.
I LOVE the imagery and am saddened that it has been lost. Perhaps if we had preserved this idea as being at the heart of the book, two thousand years of misunderstanding and fear mongering may have been avoided.
2) As mentioned by at least one other here, it written during the time of Diocletian's reign of terror. Everyone has heard of crazies like Nero and Caligula? Put Diocletian up there with them. In fact the number 666 is used as a reference to Nero as the penultimately imperfect human..directly opposed to God. People (Christians, Jews, and even the Romans themselves) were so fearful of this man that rumors and legend abounded surrounding his return from the dead. Under Diocletian's reign of terror (having Christian skewerd alive on poles, diped in pitch and lit aflame to light up the highway to Rome for example) the people feared the legends true...that Nero had returned from the dead! AHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!
LOVE LOVE LOVE the Book of Revelation.
PS: I did have wiki links to pages on Diocletian and the placental caul but it says I can't post them until I have 50 (50!? Really!?) posts. A quick wiki or google search will bring them up though.
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"Truly God is here and I never realized it! This little patch of stony ground is a place of wonder, where I have felt the presence of God. This little corner of the earth is nothing less than the dwelling place of God and the gateway to heaven!" from Gen 28:10-18
Care for the soul;
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There really is a lot of unnecessary fear and anxiety surrounding the whole 'end-times' theme. I suppose for good reason in that, as the OP and several others have pointed out, the mainstream has for the most part, completely missed the whole point of the Book of Revelation. A simple, balanced introduction to how to read and understand scripture is all that would be require for most people to 'get it' a whole lot better than they do now and this goes for mainstream media, pop culture, biblical fundamentalists and Christians of all flavors.
I spend much of my time teaching this stuff to adults coming into the faith. When speaking of the Bible and Salvation History I start from the standpoint of the scripture's two 'bookends' - Genesis and Revelation. The first two chapters of Genesis tell us what God's desire for creation and humanity was "in the beginning", we're painted a picture of the Heavenly Kingdom, of eternal life in perfect relationship with God and each-other. Whenever anyone asks me "what does God want?" I always point them in some form to this idea...to live in right relationship with us always. Revelation's message is even simpler (though hidden deeply in frightening imagery that was used for very good reason given the cultural circumstances of the time)...at the end of it all; God gets what God wants.
Far from being a message of doom and gloom, the intent of Revelation was and is to speak to a people who feel trapped in a hopeless time, who feel that their every action, every thought, is bringing them closer and closer to death; a people for whom (under Diocletian and the insane persecutions of the Roman Empire) the world seemed to be coming to an end. Revelation speaks to every man woman and child who finds themselves in a world without hope and says; "Do not be afraid. Do not ever forget. Sin and death do not have the final word in this story, I am the author, I am the Word, I am the lamb...When all has seemed to pass away...I am."
God wins.
Alleluiah!
Cura, this was a fantastic post. Thank you very much -- and please talk to as many people as you can. You have something to say.
I'm really glad you liked it. I feel very strongly about taking the time to read, understand, and teach the scriptures well. So much of our fear and misunderstanding as Christians revolves around often ridiculous assumptions about what the Bible really says.
And if you can't tell...The Apocalypse is one of my favorite books!
__________________
"Truly God is here and I never realized it! This little patch of stony ground is a place of wonder, where I have felt the presence of God. This little corner of the earth is nothing less than the dwelling place of God and the gateway to heaven!" from Gen 28:10-18
Care for the soul;
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As knowledge increases, more is made manifest of scripture to those who are wise. Revelation 13:18 states that "Here is wisdom, Let him that hath understanding count the number...."
It doesn't say here is fear, here in doubt, here is confusion. It's states that them with understanding will attain to wisdom.
I believe the number 666 references to our Adam nature connection to the entire earthen system. The number of the speed of the evolution of the earth is 66,600 mi. pr. hour. So as one man lowered entire earth into sin, Another man by his obedience, sinless nature, spilling of his blood, death burial and resurrection paid for and redeemed the entire creation.
Also, the atomic weight number of the feet of the beast in king Nebuchadnezzar's dream which were made of iron and clay equals 333 x 2(feet) = 666. Iron oxide 74.85, clay 258.16. Daniel 2 states, that the feet are referred to have toes part iron and part clay. Partly strong partly broken. It's the intergration of the final world system into the flesh of mankind. Scientist are already talking about implants that interface with neuralogical functions. Revelation 13:4 says, "who can make war with the beast."
Earthen man is mainly carbon based 6 electrons orbit 6 neutrons linked to 6 protons. For that matter most lifeforms in this realm is carbon based. Man that came from the dirt is destined to be purified by fire. Only them that worship is Spirit and Truth shall abide at his coming.
Our God is a consuming fire. Hebrew 12:29 Peter says that all the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 2 Peter 3:10
__________________ God Bless God's People!
Last edited by aparche; 11th July 2009 at 09:34 PM.
Reason: spelling
especially the bold line 
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