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  #21  
Old 8th October 2009, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Qyöt27 View Post
I might as well be overly blunt about this and say that people realizing that all that dispensationalist trash is false is for the better - there's a long history of people having 'wrong' beliefs about various religions (Christianity only being one that it's happened to), and when they see that most of the rest of the religion never followed those crackpot ideas they move on and the actual membership is unfazed, nor do I think those that weren't already dead-set against whatever religion it is will avoid it either. Those unable to cope with the fact their beliefs were misguided get caught in the crossfire, yes, but even a large number of them continue adhering to the religion they always followed, and just readjust their beliefs in light of what's happened.

That kind of end times belief is most visible in the United States, some of the aspects of it are almost totally exclusive to the US evangelical/fundamentalist camp (particularly the pieces about one world government conspiracies and the anti-European sentiments that usually accompany them). Moreover, even in the US, it's still a mixed bag because not all churches here fall into that demographic or have anything to do with that theological framework. Not to mention that the state of the US' pop-culture churches doesn't equal the state of Christianity itself. Maybe it represents the hollow, consumeristic, feel-good, milk-fed Modern Church, but that's not representative of Christianity either.

About using those differences to drive us apart, when hasn't that been the case? You only need to look at numerous other contentious theologies and groups that make rifts between believers or make believers look like they need to be locked up in the loony bin. But I still trust that the vast majority out there are able to understand that a particularly vocal minority isn't representative of all believers.
I concur.
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  #22  
Old 18th December 2009, 01:30 PM
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Question Re: I have my own theory

Dear CF'ers - I would like to toss in a thought, which I have found stunning and I find so few believers talk about.

Did you know that the nation of Islam believes in their own 'end-time' Messiah. I find this notable and disturbing. This is only one of MANY links to this 'promise'. PLEASE COMMENT - I need your thoughts on this.

Your sister-in-Christ, Gail


The concept of Messiah in Islam

According to the unanimously accepted saying of the Prophet Muhammad, God will bring about a saviour before the end of time to establish the global domination of Islam over all religions. In other words, the saviour will establish the Kingdom of God on this earth. In Islamic traditions, that saviour is known by the name of "al-Mahdi".
The establishment of God’s Kingdom on earth at the hand of the righteous people has been clearly mentioned in the holy Qur’ãn. God says:
We would like to bestow a favour upon those who have been oppressed in the earth and make them leaders and make them inheritors (of the world)." (The Qur’ãn 28:5)
He again says,
Certainly, We wrote in the Psalms (Zabur)...`As for the earth, surely My righteous servants shall inherit it.’" (The Qur’ãn 21:105)
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  #23  
Old 20th December 2009, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by BlackSabb View Post
I have no doubt that all these popular Christian speculations about the end of the world are all false. Particularly as there are so many interpretations of it. However, I have come to the conclusion that this continual barrage of all these end times speculations is causing people to become over familiar with all these themes.

And what will be the outcome of all this? Simply this. As the entire world continues to hear about the end of the world, the antiChrist, 666, the mark of the beast etc and as all these things DON'T come to pass, the world will be turned off Christianity. Because the world will see that these things are not happening. Like I said before, when you see Tim LeHaye parodied in The Simpsons, you know the message has become saturated.
I'm inclined to agree with you. On another message board there were many times when I had fallen away I'd lurk over there and would laugh every time someone would say, "oh, I'm not buying Christmas presents this year, because Jesus will be coming back before then". They were also saying, "I truly believe that we shouldn't be fearful about Obama being president, because we'll be raptured before the election". And then they're sitting here a year later wondering, "why does the Lord tarry, so?! How could we be so wrong about the signs?!" It gave me absolutely no reason to come back to Christ. If anything, their words and behaviors caused me to sink deeper into my skepticism.
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  #24  
Old 21st December 2009, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by GailS2406 View Post
Did you know that the nation of Islam believes in their own 'end-time' Messiah. I find this notable and disturbing.
Islam is not a nation. It is a religion.
It is also a near-universal religious expectation that all of creation will one day fully submit to ideal order. In monotheistic religions -- Judaism, Christianity, Islam -- this is described as the establishment of the kingdom of God.

Ecclesiastes says that God set eternity in the hearts of men. It appears that God set hope in the hearts of men too. We were not designed to thrive in fear or disorder.
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  #25  
Old 23rd December 2009, 12:34 AM
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I think GailS was referring to Nation of Islam, which is a branch of the Muslim faith predominantly comprised of black men and women.
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  #26  
Old 23rd December 2009, 09:41 PM
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Perhaps; and that would be even more interesting.

The NOI's cosmology draws from a million sources and yet doesn't make them any more a true "nation" than fearing Gargamel would make me a Smurf.

When I was younger I spent some time dealing with NOI and other such groups. They might call for separation but are not unique. Nor do they have the power or cohesion that would be necessary to run a kingdom coup on any country they're resident in.

That said, the webpage Gail quoted from deals with Islam, not the hybrid Afrocentric offshoot, the NOI.

And it's currently quite popular to believe that radical Muslims will try to take over the world and crush Christianity (this is rather than the Russian-Sino-Communist villains of Cold War era Christian fiction).
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  #27  
Old 23rd December 2009, 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by AzA View Post
...the hybrid Afrocentric offshoot, the NOI.
On second thought -- I don't even know if it's accurate to describe the NOI as an offshoot of Islam.

The source of Islam is Arabia, around the 7th Century.

The source of the Nation of Islam is Detroit, MI, in 1930.

And the purposes of the two groups are vastly different.
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  #28  
Old 24th December 2009, 04:53 AM
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Originally Posted by GailS2406 View Post
Dear CF'ers - I would like to toss in a thought, which I have found stunning and I find so few believers talk about.

Did you know that the nation of Islam believes in their own 'end-time' Messiah. I find this notable and disturbing. This is only one of MANY links to this 'promise'. PLEASE COMMENT - I need your thoughts on this.

Your sister-in-Christ, Gail


The concept of Messiah in Islam

According to the unanimously accepted saying of the Prophet Muhammad, God will bring about a saviour before the end of time to establish the global domination of Islam over all religions. In other words, the saviour will establish the Kingdom of God on this earth. In Islamic traditions, that saviour is known by the name of "al-Mahdi".
The establishment of God’s Kingdom on earth at the hand of the righteous people has been clearly mentioned in the holy Qur’ãn. God says:
We would like to bestow a favour upon those who have been oppressed in the earth and make them leaders and make them inheritors (of the world)." (The Qur’ãn 28:5)
He again says,
Certainly, We wrote in the Psalms (Zabur)...`As for the earth, surely My righteous servants shall inherit it.’" (The Qur’ãn 21:105)

In Islam there are 2 Messiahs, the true Messiah and the lying Messiah

the true Messiah is Jesus and the lying Messiah will come in the future and will create for himself an army and will claim to be a God and will kill anyone who doesn't worship him until Jesus come back and slay him.
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  #29  
Old 25th December 2009, 03:23 PM
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Formy -- which branch of Islam are you part of?
And are there any sections of the Qur'an or other traditional writings that support what you have shared?

I'd like to be able to read some more.
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  #30  
Old 29th December 2009, 12:12 PM
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Well, it may be all metaphor. The end of one thing is the beginning of another. We see this in ourselves individually. One way of living dies in us and another is born. And we see this in the rise and fall of cultures.

I think the far extreme of end time thinking results in Jim Jones and other horror shows. It also provides self-righteous hypocrites with a means of feeling they will be saved while the rest of us burn.

Literal interpretation of scripture IMHO is absurd and dangerous.
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