New here, wanted more info on New/Old Earth

Wyte_as_Sno · #1 12th May 2009, 04:06 PM

Hello everyone. Im new, and a new believer. Im here because I want more information about this topic. I never heard about anything and Im clueless about everything in the Bible, but i wanted to get more infomation on this topic, thus the reason why Im here. This might get a little confusing because im trying to sort it out, so you might be reading just random thoughts...but please, help me out.

I hear New earth and Old earth alot, then, I hear them debating eachother about 24 hour days letteral and 6 days = thousands/millions of years.

Strictly reading from the Bible, God created the heavens and the earth in 6 days, and 7th day was rest. I understand that much. Now, my question and I need understanding on this part:

How long was it before Adam and Eve ate the fruit of good and evil? Could it be the 8th day after the Day of Rest or can it be 100 or 1000000 years after? The Bible didnt state that and so I cant really totally understand the new earths arguement. Im not against it, I just want to know more about it. Please enlighten me. Thank you.

Dark_Lite · #2 12th May 2009, 04:41 PM

Originally Posted by Wyte_as_Sno

Hello everyone. Im new, and a new believer. Im here because I want more information about this topic. I never heard about anything and Im clueless about everything in the Bible, but i wanted to get more infomation on this topic, thus the reason why Im here. This might get a little confusing because im trying to sort it out, so you might be reading just random thoughts...but please, help me out.

I hear New earth and Old earth alot, then, I hear them debating eachother about 24 hour days letteral and 6 days = thousands/millions of years.

Strictly reading from the Bible, God created the heavens and the earth in 6 days, and 7th day was rest. I understand that much. Now, my question and I need understanding on this part:

How long was it before Adam and Eve ate the fruit of good and evil? Could it be the 8th day after the Day of Rest or can it be 100 or 1000000 years after? The Bible didnt state that and so I cant really totally understand the new earths arguement. Im not against it, I just want to know more about it. Please enlighten me. Thank you.

The reason that you can't understand the young earth argument is because it's illogical and flies in the face of what we know about reality. Not including the problems that YECism runs into when it tries to redefine the entirety of modern science, it also has problems when read literally with the Bible.

There are two conflicting accounts of creation (Gen. 1 and 2). This alone gives literalists problems.

Now, in your last paragraph you seem to be describing gap theory to a certain extent--where there are literal days but they are spread far apart over billions of years.

There are several different general stances in origins theology:

Young Earth Creationism (YEC): The belief that the Earth is 4,000-6,000 years old as literally described in Genesis. The number is arrived at by adding up the ages of the people described in Genesis. This comes with a denial of evolution.
Old Earth Creationism (OEC): The belief that the Earth is about as old as described by modern science. Generally this idea comes with a denial of evolutionary theory on the "macro" scale.
Theistic Evolution: The belief that reconciles Christianity with all of modern science, stating that God used the theories described by modern science to create the universe and life.

These beliefs are listed in order of Biblical literalism required to make them work, with YECism being at the top as it is the most literal of the three. Also, there are many variations within each of these stances, but those are the overarching positions.

MattLangley · #3 12th May 2009, 04:55 PM

Originally Posted by Dark_Lite

The reason that you can't understand the young earth argument is because it's illogical and flies in the face of what we know about reality. Not including the problems that YECism runs into when it tries to redefine the entirety of modern science, it also has problems when read literally with the Bible.

There are two conflicting accounts of creation (Gen. 1 and 2). This alone gives literalists problems.

Now, in your last paragraph you seem to be describing gap theory to a certain extent--where there are literal days but they are spread far apart over billions of years.

There are several different general stances in origins theology:

Young Earth Creationism (YEC): The belief that the Earth is 4,000-6,000 years old as literally described in Genesis. The number is arrived at by adding up the ages of the people described in Genesis. This comes with a denial of evolution.

Old Earth Creationism (OEC): The belief that the Earth is about as old as described by modern science. Generally this idea comes with a denial of evolutionary theory on the "macro" scale.

Theistic Evolution: The belief that reconciles Christianity with all of modern science, stating that God used the theories described by modern science to create the universe and life.

These beliefs are listed in order of Biblical literalism required to make them work, with YECism being at the top as it is the most literal of the three. Also, there are many variations within each of these stances, but those are the overarching positions.

A very good summary of a very complex topic.

(On to my own comment) There are many who don't believe the Bible is meant to be used as a science book for the creation of anything, but mean to represent religious ideals about our relationship with God.

juvenissun · #4 12th May 2009, 10:03 PM

Originally Posted by Wyte_as_Sno

Hello everyone. Im new, and a new believer. Im here because I want more information about this topic. I never heard about anything and Im clueless about everything in the Bible, but i wanted to get more infomation on this topic, thus the reason why Im here. This might get a little confusing because im trying to sort it out, so you might be reading just random thoughts...but please, help me out.

I hear New earth and Old earth alot, then, I hear them debating eachother about 24 hour days letteral and 6 days = thousands/millions of years.

Strictly reading from the Bible, God created the heavens and the earth in 6 days, and 7th day was rest. I understand that much. Now, my question and I need understanding on this part:

How long was it before Adam and Eve ate the fruit of good and evil? Could it be the 8th day after the Day of Rest or can it be 100 or 1000000 years after? The Bible didnt state that and so I cant really totally understand the new earths arguement. Im not against it, I just want to know more about it. Please enlighten me. Thank you.

Many YECs suggested that the young earth is 6000 to 10,000 years old.

To me, a YEC, it does not have to be that way. YEC is in contrast to OEC. So what is OEC? It suggested that the earth is 4.5 billion years old. This old age is given by science and is generally accepted by scientists. So, if the earth is much younger than 4.5 b.y., it would be a young earth.

So, a young earth could be 100,000 years old, or 10,000,000 years old, or even 600,000,000 years old. As long as the earth is younger than 4,500,000,000 years old, it is a young earth.

gluadys · #5 12th May 2009, 11:50 PM

Originally Posted by Wyte_as_Sno

Now, my question and I need understanding on this part:

How long was it before Adam and Eve ate the fruit of good and evil? Could it be the 8th day after the Day of Rest or can it be 100 or 1000000 years after? The Bible didnt state that and so I cant really totally understand the new earths arguement. Im not against it, I just want to know more about it. Please enlighten me. Thank you.

For a description of various positions on the age of the earth and on evolution you can check out the sticky on The Full Spectrum of Christian Beliefs on Origins.

As to your specific question, we need to remember that Adam and Eve are not part of the creation story in Genesis 1:1-2:4a. They are in a different (and older) creation story in Genesis 2:4b and ff. In that story the creation does not take 6 days. The whole story is "in the day that God created the earth and the heavens". So using the chronology in that story, the Fall occurred the same day as Creation.

As Dark_Lite observed, this is the problem with a literalist view that tries to make a science text of the bible. It can't even deal with the evident discrepancies in the bible itself---much less with the physical reality that God created.

Wyte_as_Sno · #6 13th May 2009, 01:00 PM

Originally Posted by gluadys

For a description of various positions on the age of the earth and on evolution you can check out the sticky on The Full Spectrum of Christian Beliefs on Origins.

As to your specific question, we need to remember that Adam and Eve are not part of the creation story in Genesis 1:1-2:4a. They are in a different (and older) creation story in Genesis 2:4b and ff. In that story the creation does not take 6 days. The whole story is "in the day that God created the earth and the heavens". So using the chronology in that story, the Fall occurred the same day as Creation.

As Dark_Lite observed, this is the problem with a literalist view that tries to make a science text of the bible. It can't even deal with the evident discrepancies in the bible itself---much less with the physical reality that God created.

But in Gen. 1:26;31 is says, "26 Let us make man in Our image......31 sixth day."

Although it maybe that there is a "new" creation and "old" creation, if God created man before the "new" creation, then why was it mention that man was created on the sixth day? I thought 2:4- was a over lap of?? the creation.

gluadys · #7 13th May 2009, 05:01 PM

Originally Posted by Wyte_as_Sno

But in Gen. 1:26;31 is says, "26 Let us make man in Our image......31 sixth day."

Although it maybe that there is a "new" creation and "old" creation, if God created man before the "new" creation, then why was it mention that man was created on the sixth day? I thought 2:4- was a over lap of?? the creation.

Nope. Completely different story by a different author who lived 2-4 centuries before the story in Genesis 1 was written.

The two stories simply tell of the creation in different idioms. And they are not the only creation stories in scripture either. There is another one--very short--at the beginning of Genesis 6, and another in Psalm 90 and another in Proverbs 8--which features the role of Wisdom in creation. And several other references as well.

There is no one simple story of creation in scripture, nor can the various stories be harmonized into a single chronological account. It would appear that this sort of historico-scientific consistency was not important to biblical authors or editors.

Modern readers have to be aware that when they bring concerns of historico-scientific accuracy to the text of scripture, they are imposing on it a modern world-view shaped by science. The authors and editors of scripture had diffferent world-views and different concerns.

To get their message, we need to let them tell their story in their own way.