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11th May 2009, 01:15 AM
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Reps: 118,712,461,112,472,176 (power: 118,712,461,112,500) | | Originally Posted by Nathan45  I don't usually talk to televangelists... but let me think of what i'd ask them...
i guess i'd ask them, "why do you believe what you believe? what convinced you?"
Hey, Dad... Why do you believe what you believe? what convinced you? Same question to AV1611vet 
I believe, because I tried it, and it works. I believe, because since then, also, I looked into it, and found out that faith was what it has always been about since the garden, for man. I believe, because even though I don't deserve it, He made Himself real to me, and in my life, and in a thousand ways every day since. I believe in my mother as well, because I also experienced a reality there, that, whether science detects her or not (she is dead so good luck with that) I know. And science, really is about knowing!
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If the flood happened when laws were different than this present state we know, all bets are off for present state science being able to extrapolate backwards in any meaningful or accurate way. |
11th May 2009, 01:17 AM
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Reps: 2,065,776,357,046,283 (power: 2,065,776,357,055) | | | didn't mean to say "televangelists" (freudian slip?). I edited that out but you guys are quick lol.
anyway, Avatar: Feel free to elaborate. |
11th May 2009, 01:19 AM
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Reps: 2,065,776,357,046,283 (power: 2,065,776,357,055) | | Originally Posted by dad I believe, because I tried it, and it works.
what did you try and what works? I believe, because since then, also, I looked into it, and found out that faith was what it has always been about since the garden, for man. I believe, because even though I don't deserve it, He made Himself real to me,
in what way did he make himself real to you? |
11th May 2009, 01:24 AM
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Reps: 1,017,882,919,370,317,952 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by Nathan45 didn't mean to say "televangelists" (freudian slip?). I edited that out but you guys are quick lol.
anyway, Avatar: Feel free to elaborate.
Lol, go ahead and write the book?
No, I don't think so. Everyone's journey is their own, and my journey won't convince you of anything.
Faith is called faith for a reason. |
11th May 2009, 01:28 AM
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Reps: 2,065,776,357,046,283 (power: 2,065,776,357,055) | | Originally Posted by Avatar Faith is called faith for a reason.
Why do you consider faith* a virtue rather than a vice? (this question could be to anyone, not just avatar).
*(that is, belief without solid evidence.) |
11th May 2009, 10:29 AM
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| | Join Date: 16th December 2008 Location: usa
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Reps: 110,182,959,778,071,968 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by Nathan45 Why do you consider faith* a virtue rather than a vice? (this question could be to anyone, not just avatar).
*(that is, belief without solid evidence.)
I wonder sometimes about how "faith" and loyalty are related.
Like to me, loyalty to family is as high a value as there is. I guess in a sense that is "faith" that loyalty is the right thing under any and all circumstances. You just dont make exceptions, you dont ask if its a good thing, you dont care what other people say do or think. You just stay loyal to family.
And believe that in the end it will have been better for you and for everyone else, than if you had ever not been loyal. |
11th May 2009, 12:10 PM
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Reps: 2,296,392,850,439,835,136 (power: 2,296,392,850,439,846) | | Originally Posted by Hespera I wonder sometimes about how "faith" and loyalty are related.
Like to me, loyalty to family is as high a value as there is. I guess in a sense that is "faith" that loyalty is the right thing under any and all circumstances. You just dont make exceptions, you dont ask if its a good thing, you dont care what other people say do or think. You just stay loyal to family.
And believe that in the end it will have been better for you and for everyone else, than if you had ever not been loyal.
That's an interesting thought..I think you have a point there.
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Maranatha! |
12th May 2009, 12:50 AM
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Reps: 118,712,461,112,472,176 (power: 118,712,461,112,500) | | Originally Posted by Nathan45 what did you try and what works?
in what way did he make himself real to you?
In every way. You try it, and report back in 30 years. You might like it. Joh 7:17 -If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself. Ac 1:3 - To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God: I tried asking Jesus into my life. He worked, in that He made Himself known to me. His care has been there since, in every important way. Dealing with the heartbreaks, and blows of life. Understanding some of the lessons of this life, and some of the hidden mysteries of His word. Knowing that this temporal life is not all there is, and that it has a purpose. etc.
The reaction is known after the action takes place. Not before. He is the Action.
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If the flood happened when laws were different than this present state we know, all bets are off for present state science being able to extrapolate backwards in any meaningful or accurate way. |
12th May 2009, 12:51 AM
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Reps: 118,712,461,112,472,176 (power: 118,712,461,112,500) | | Originally Posted by Nathan45 Why do you consider faith* a virtue rather than a vice? (this question could be to anyone, not just avatar).
*(that is, belief without solid evidence.)
Why do you believe in a same state future and past, without evidence, and consider that a virtue?
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If the flood happened when laws were different than this present state we know, all bets are off for present state science being able to extrapolate backwards in any meaningful or accurate way. |
12th May 2009, 12:59 AM
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Reps: 2,065,776,357,046,283 (power: 2,065,776,357,055) | | Originally Posted by dad Why do you believe in a same state future and past, without evidence, and consider that a virtue? Ockham's razor.
the "state" has been the same as long as i've been alive, and as far as i know there's nothing in the archeological or geological record that would indicate a different state past. A very strong inductive argument can be made that the "state" was the same in the past, at least to the point of the big bang.
and why do you say, "without evidence"? the fact that it is possible to come up with self-consistent models of the past that fit all evidence, under the very inflexible principles of uniformitarianism is good evidence that the past was in the same state.
your turn to answer my question. | | |
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