What's your best counter-argument?

AV1611VET · #21 11th May 2009, 12:40 AM

Originally Posted by BananaSlug

So right now we're under "Grace/Ecclesial" dispensation? It covers Acts 2 to Revelation 20.

You can spout all this, and yet you still ask this?

Originally Posted by BananaSlug

I wonder why he doesn't care to do it now?

BananaSlug · #22 11th May 2009, 12:48 AM

Originally Posted by AV1611VET

You can spout all this, and yet you still ask this?

Yes because Christ said,

20 So Jesus said to them, “Because of your unbelief; for assuredly, I say to you, if you have faith as a mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move; and nothing will be impossible for you. 21 However, this kind does not go out except by prayer and fasting.” Matthew 17:20-21

12 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father. 13 And whatever you ask in My name, that I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If you ask anything in My name, I will do it. John 14:12-14

Are you saying Christ was lying? He raised Lazarus from the dead! He healed a withered hand and made the lame walk. Healing someone with an amputated leg should be easy.

dad · #23 11th May 2009, 12:57 AM

Originally Posted by BananaSlug

Yes because Christ said,

20 So Jesus said to them, “Because of your unbelief; for assuredly, I say to you, if you have faith as a mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move; and nothing will be impossible for you. 21 However, this kind does not go out except by prayer and fasting.” Matthew 17:20-21

12 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father. 13 And whatever you ask in My name, that I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If you ask anything in My name, I will do it. John 14:12-14

Are you saying Christ was lying? He raised Lazarus from the dead! He healed a withered hand and made the lame walk. Healing someone with an amputated leg should be easy.

It is!! And that was what He did, in scads! He healed tens of thousands, He did it en masse in many cases! Let's see faith healers today empty the hospitals!!? And not ask for bucks for so doing! Yes, God still heals, or CAN heal. But, let's face it..we are dying! He just will not heal us forever, we are going to die. Don't feel like a failure if God does not heal every single affliction! If He did, we would never die.

The degree of healing, far as I can tell, was greater in that day. It will likely also be greater again, greater works shall we believers do. But, let's face it, right now seems to be a time of less healings..no?

BananaSlug · #24 11th May 2009, 01:02 AM

Originally Posted by dad

It is!! And that was what He did, in scads! He healed tens of thousands, He did it en masse in many cases! Let's see faith healers today empty the hospitals!!?

Maybe they don't have enough faith?

Yes, God still heals, or CAN heal. But, let's face it..we are dying! He just will not heal us forever, we are going to die.

So you are admitting Jesus was lying when he said;
12 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father. 13 And whatever you ask in My name, that I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If you ask anything in My name, I will do it. John 14:12-14

Don't feel like a failure if God does not heal every single affliction! If He did, we would never die.

If he did, there would be 0 atheists.

The degree of healing, far as I can tell, was greater in that day. It will likely also be greater again, greater works shall we believers do. But, let's face it, right now seems to be a time of less healings..no?

Yes, isn't that weird? Of course, I would love to see some healing done without the help of modern medicine. I think the percentage of "healing" would plummet drastically.

AV1611VET · #25 11th May 2009, 01:06 AM

Originally Posted by BananaSlug

12 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father. 13 And whatever you ask in My name, that I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If you ask anything in My name, I will do it. John 14:12-14

Are you saying Christ was lying? He raised Lazarus from the dead! He healed a withered hand and made the lame walk. Healing someone with an amputated leg should be easy.

No --- He wasn't lying --- read the Book of Acts, whose correct title is the Acts of the Apostles --- not the Acts of the Holy Spirit.

These special miracles were confined to the Apostles, who needed verification of their message (the Gospel), until the completion of the Scriptures in AD 96.

(Some miracles were also done by the Gentiles as confirmation that the Holy Ghost was upon them.)

If you disagree --- I have a question for you:

Why could Paul, for instance, heal a man crippled at birth (Acts 14:8-10), but couldn't cure his sick friend?

Originally Posted by 2 Timothy 4:20

Erastus abode at Corinth: but Trophimus have I left at Miletum sick.

Keep in mind that Acts covers the transition period between the dispensations of Law and Grace.

dad · #26 11th May 2009, 01:08 AM

Originally Posted by BananaSlug

Maybe they don't have enough faith?

Maybe. Or maybe it is not the time of man to engage in heavy duty healings en masse at the moment? There is a time for everything, and everything in it's time. In heaven, for example, we all have complete healing all the time, we live forever.

So you are admitting Jesus was lying when he said;
12 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father. 13 And whatever you ask in My name, that I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If you ask anything in My name, I will do it. John 14:12-14

Of course not. We shall do greater works, and, in some areas, one might argue we already do! Like preaching the gospel..TV, radio, etc..! But healing, although always there for some, does not have to be included from the first till second comings! If there are great miracles, for example in the last seven years, including healings, then that is fulfilled!

Yes, isn't that weird? Of course, I would love to see some healing done without the help of modern medicine. I think the percentage of "healing" would plummet drastically.

Modern medicine is larglely demonic quackery! Using embryos, and sex changes, and all sorts of evil things.

Nathan45 · #27 11th May 2009, 01:11 AM

I don't usually talk to people who approach me about their religion (except online that is).. but let me think of what i'd ask them...

i guess i'd ask them, "why do you believe what you believe? what convinced you?"

Hey, Dad... Why do you believe what you believe? what convinced you? Same question to AV1611vet

AV1611VET · #28 11th May 2009, 01:12 AM

Originally Posted by BananaSlug

If he did, there would be 0 atheists.

Don't kid yourself.

AV1611VET · #29 11th May 2009, 01:13 AM

Originally Posted by Nathan45

I don't usually talk to televangelists... but let me think of what i'd ask them...

i guess i'd ask them, "why do you believe what you believe? what convinced you?"

Hey, Dad... Why do you believe what you believe? what convinced you? Same question to AV1611vet

Simple ---

Originally Posted by Romans 10:17

So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Avatar · #30 11th May 2009, 01:14 AM

Originally Posted by Nathan45

I don't usually talk to televangelists... but let me think of what i'd ask them...

i guess i'd ask them, "why do you believe what you believe? what convinced you?"

Hey, Dad... Why do you believe what you believe? what convinced you? Same question to AV1611vet

I can't speak for dad or AV, but if you were to ask me that same question you'd essentially be asking for a book.