| Bridge Builders - Moderate Christians Congregation forum for moderate Christians. |
 | | 
16th September 2009, 04:01 PM
| | Newbie
   
| | Join Date: 10th March 2009
Posts: 445
Blessings: 51,666
Reps: 14,682,455,275,079,776 (power: 14,682,455,275,082) | | Originally Posted by BlackSabb  Hi everyone. I've heard in church on a number of occasions (plus on Christian television) how all church leaders are appointed by God, for there is no authority that exists apart from God. And the bottom line? That as all church leaders are God appointed, Christians need to submit to them.
These people will tell you that disobedience is the worst possible sin. Actually, abuse of authority is worse, but they wioll never admit that.
Just cause someone is a pastor, doesn't mean their authority is for real. Pastor Jim Jones told everyone to drink cyanide and they obeyed. |
23rd September 2009, 03:04 PM
| | Junior Member
 
| | Join Date: 19th May 2006
Posts: 386
Blessings: 1,056,277
Reps: 9,650,512,641,711,148 (power: 9,650,512,641,717) | | | I'm inclining to the view that rather than God appointing leaders (why stop there? Why not appointing worship leaders, house-group coordinators, property managers, pastoral visitors), what happens is that willing people offer themselves and God uses them.
Otherwise how do you explain the frequent failures of those in authority. It seems God makes therefore some BIG mistakes. |
23rd September 2009, 05:59 PM
| | Senior Veteran
70   
| | Join Date: 3rd August 2004 Location: New Zealand
Posts: 9,577
Blessings: 14,011,445
Reps: 189,235,233,372,846,048 (power: 189,235,233,372,863) | | | The role of a modern pastor owes much more to various church traditions than biblical precepts. The pyramid nature of most churches is just not biblical.
John
NZ |
26th September 2009, 11:48 AM
|  | Senior Contributor
61 
| | Join Date: 8th December 2004
Posts: 19,849
Blessings: 20,393,837
Reps: 445,730,889,197,475,072 (power: 445,730,889,197,502) | | | By and large, the answer to the question is, "No. Pastors are NOT 'appointed by God.'"
The New Testament shows that the church appoints them bishops, presbyters, and deacons, and that this is the responsibility OF the church. That's what the idea of the "priesthood of all believers" means--the whole body of believers delegating the pastoral responsibility to a select few to preach, administer the sacraments, lead congregations, etc.
The "appointing," in other words, is done by the people of God, having judged whether or not the person in question has satisfied the congregation that he indeed has a call from God (which is not the same as being "appointed" by God, you see). |
13th January 2010, 02:34 PM
|  | Love, Truth, Wisdom, Light, Understanding, Kindess
34  
 | | Join Date: 28th April 2005 Location: Michigan
Posts: 4,820
Blessings: 98,986 My Mood 
Reps: 2,674,980,620,901,573 (power: 2,674,980,620,912) | | | I do not know, but i do know this; Many pastors/leaders teach what they think is best but isnt always best. If that makes sense. Also some are called but get off track, become spiritually dead, etc. Pastors are human. |
13th January 2010, 02:42 PM
| | Senior Contributor
61
| | Join Date: 8th December 2004
Posts: 19,849
Blessings: 20,393,837
Reps: 445,730,889,197,475,072 (power: 445,730,889,197,502) | | Originally Posted by daughterofzion I do not know, but i do know this; Many pastors/leaders teach what they think is best but isnt always best. If that makes sense. Also some are called but get off track, become spiritually dead, etc. Pastors are human.
Exactly. The church has the power to select and invest pastors, and God does call people by putting it on their hearst to be pastors, but the church can make mistaken choices in this area. |
13th January 2010, 02:53 PM
|  | Old School from the Backwoods - Christian Style
37  
| | Join Date: 26th May 2009 Location: In between Deliverance and Brother, Where Art Thou?
Posts: 2,670
Blessings: 2,147 My Mood 
Reps: 154,769,826,047,760,672 (power: 154,769,826,047,765) | | | The legitimate, sincere pastors are appointed by God. God calls these special people to preach His Word by becoming vessels through which God flows through to the world. |
13th January 2010, 03:20 PM
| | Love, Truth, Wisdom, Light, Understanding, Kindess
34
| | Join Date: 28th April 2005 Location: Michigan
Posts: 4,820
Blessings: 98,986 My Mood
Reps: 2,674,980,620,901,573 (power: 2,674,980,620,912) | | Originally Posted by jpcedotal The legitimate, sincere pastors are appointed by God. God calls these special people to preach His Word by becoming vessels through which God flows through to the world.
I have to agree and oppose you on this. "Legitimate" or not, pastors even if anointed and born to be a pastor are still human and fall short of the glory of God! We are ALL called to reflect God! We all fail at times. Even legitimate pastors as you put it may need a time to step back and grow, heal, etc. Too much power seems to corrupt even the best of intentions at times. |
13th January 2010, 03:29 PM
| | Old School from the Backwoods - Christian Style
37
| | Join Date: 26th May 2009 Location: In between Deliverance and Brother, Where Art Thou?
Posts: 2,670
Blessings: 2,147 My Mood
Reps: 154,769,826,047,760,672 (power: 154,769,826,047,765) | | Originally Posted by daughterofzion I have to agree and oppose you on this. "Legitimate" or not, pastors even if anointed and born to be a pastor are still human and fall short of the glory of God! We are ALL called to reflect God! We all fail at times. Even legitimate pastors as you put it may need a time to step back and grow, heal, etc. Too much power seems to corrupt even the best of intentions at times.
True, I didn't say these people are perfect, but it is the sincerity and the love of others that are the fruits of "legitimate" pastors. |
13th January 2010, 04:03 PM
|  | Spirit of 8-Bit
20   
| | Join Date: 21st July 2008 Location: Illinois
Posts: 3,874
Blessings: 209,238,971 My Mood 
Reps: 343,789,121,616,877,504 (power: 343,789,121,616,884) | | I wish it was easier to determine who was legitimate. I mean, there are some outward red flags that I keep an eye on when attending a church for the first time and I usually see them and move on. Or I will attend for awhile but things do change, and often for the worst (in line with my cynical thinking  ) so I guess what I am saying is wish that I could see when things were starting to go bad, I may of been able to prevent a lot of unnecessary drama.
__________________
"Entropy wins, Entropy always wins..." --Thane, Mass Effect 2
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
| | |
| Thread Tools | | | | Display Modes |  Linear Mode |
| | |
