Joel 2 shows timing of rapture/gathering

HisdaughterJen · #1 29th April 2009, 03:29 PM

The beginning of the Day of the Lord is the gathering both of Israel and the church.

1 Blow the trumpet in Zion; (FIRST TRUMPET)
sound the alarm on my holy hill.
Let all who live in the land tremble,
for the day of the LORD is coming.
It is close at hand-

2 a day of darkness and gloom,
a day of clouds and blackness.
Like dawn spreading across the mountains
a large and mighty army comes,
such as never was of old
nor ever will be in ages to come.
...

10 Before them the earth shakes,
the sky trembles,
the sun and moon are darkened,
and the stars no longer shine. (6th seal)

...

15 Blow the trumpet in Zion, (LAST TRUMPET)
declare a holy fast,
call a sacred assembly.

16 Gather the people,
consecrate the assembly; (144,000 of Israel)
bring together the elders,
gather the children,
those nursing at the breast.
Let the bridegroom leave his room
and the bride her chamber. (JESUS/CHURCH)

...

31 The sun will be turned to darkness
and the moon to blood
before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD. (6th seal)

This is happening when the sun/moon darken/Northern army invasion. This is happening in the 5th and 6th seals. The Bride is given her "white robes"/"fine linen, clean and bright"/"imperishable clothes" at the last trumpet, at the end of the tribulation which is cut short for the sake of the elect of Israel when the sun/moon darken, at a time when the Gospel has been preached as a witness to all nations, BEFORE the Day of the Lord/Day of Wrath begins, before "more martyrs" happen.

Hismessenger · #2 30th April 2009, 06:33 AM

I have one question for you. Is it before the thousand year reign, or after.

hismessenger

HisdaughterJen · #3 3rd May 2009, 06:15 PM

Originally Posted by Hismessenger

I have one question for you. Is it before the thousand year reign, or after.

hismessenger

The gathering of the church and of the elect of Israel is at the beginning of the millennium, after the nearly 2000 year tribulation, and before the time of wrath.

Then there are two resurrections that will soon follow (not including the two witnesses) which include those who refused the mark after the time of wrath and then the GWT judgment at the end of the millennium.

Hismessenger · #4 4th May 2009, 07:20 AM

HisdaughterJen

The gathering of the church and of the elect of Israel is at the beginning of the millennium, after the nearly 2000 year tribulation, and before the time of wrath

Then there are two resurrections that will soon follow (not including the two witnesses) which include those who refused the mark after the time of wrath and then the GWT judgment at the end of the millennium.

This is adding to the scripture for the word speaks of the first resurrection where they go to reign with Christ for the thousand years and then the second and final resurrection which is the white throne judgment. How and where do you come up with two more.

This shows the fallacy of the doctrine for during the thousand year reign, you have saints on the earth. See rev 20. They are surrounded by Satan after his release from the pit for the thousand years. According to what your saying then there would be two raptures and three resurrections. No where in the bible can what you say be substantiated by any scripture without leaning to your or someone else' understanding.I believe it is the latter. Your position is not scriptural according to the word.

hismessenger

HisdaughterJen · #5 8th May 2009, 02:45 PM

Originally Posted by Hismessenger

HisdaughterJen

This is adding to the scripture for the word speaks of the first resurrection where they go to reign with Christ for the thousand years and then the second and final resurrection which is the white throne judgment. How and where do you come up with two more.

Those included in the first resurrection are not subject to the second death, Hismessenger. The first resurrection, therefore, would include all resurrections since Christ, would it not?

This shows the fallacy of the doctrine for during the thousand year reign, you have saints on the earth. See rev 20. They are surrounded by Satan after his release from the pit for the thousand years

What you are not seeing is that Israel and the church are not one until the end of the millennium. The church is removed at the beginning of the millennium and Israel (as well as survivors from the nations) live (and die) during the millennium. It is they who endure Satan when released.

. According to what your saying then there would be two raptures and three resurrections. No where in the bible can what you say be substantiated by any scripture without leaning to your or someone else' understanding.I believe it is the latter. Your position is not scriptural according to the word.

hismessenger

There certainly is more than one rapture. Enoch was raptured. Elijah was raptured. Jesus ascended. The church will be raptured. The two witnesses will be raptured.

There certainly is more than one resurrection as well. Jesus was resurrected. People came out of their graves at that time according to Matt 28. The dead in Christ will be resurrected at the last trumpet. (joel 2/ 1 cor 15) The two witnesses will be resurrected (rev11). The martyrs at the hands of the beast will be resurrected after Jesus comes on the clouds (Rev 20). There is a resurrection of all at the end of the millennium. (Rev 20)

Hismessenger · #6 8th May 2009, 06:26 PM

HisdaughterJen,

What is your definition of the word rapture, Harpazo. It is not the same as resurrecting.

hismessenger

Hismessenger · #7 8th May 2009, 06:38 PM

Hisdaughterjen,

you said;

The gathering of the church and of the elect of Israel is at the beginning of the millennium, after the nearly 2000 year tribulation, and before the time of wrath.

But the scripture which says unless those days be shortened should no flesh be saved, speaks of the tribulation being shortened for the sake of the ELECT.

So now are we going to say that there are more elect to be gathered. The elect is also the church. Have you ever read the prophesy of the two sticks. If you haven't then you should because it shows us where the two become one Jew and Gentile which occurs during the millennium reign. So how many times is Christ suppose to come for his people?

I only know of two. One to resurrect and the other to rapture/resurrect in the last day. Jesus said I will raise you up in the last day more than a few times. I believe I would trust Him over man. He said to trust no man.

I'm not giving you a doctrine, only asking you to look for yourself. The truth is there if you seek for it.

hismessenger

A Brother In Christ · #8 8th May 2009, 08:43 PM

Originally Posted by HisdaughterJen

The beginning of the Day of the Lord is the gathering both of Israel and the church.

1 Blow the trumpet in Zion; (FIRST TRUMPET)
sound the alarm on my holy hill.
Let all who live in the land tremble,
for the day of the LORD is coming.
It is close at hand-

1 thes 5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. 2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

why is this ... 1 cor 1:22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:

why is this important... 2 cor 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight

2 a day of darkness and gloom,
a day of clouds and blackness.
Like dawn spreading across the mountains
a large and mighty army comes,
such as never was of old
nor ever will be in ages to come.
...

10 Before them the earth shakes,
the sky trembles,
the sun and moon are darkened,
and the stars no longer shine. (6th seal)

...

15 Blow the trumpet in Zion, (LAST TRUMPET)
declare a holy fast,
call a sacred assembly.

16 Gather the people,
consecrate the assembly; (144,000 of Israel)
bring together the elders,
gather the children,
those nursing at the breast.
Let the bridegroom leave his room
and the bride her chamber. (JESUS/CHURCH)

...

31 The sun will be turned to darkness
and the moon to blood
before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD. (6th seal)

This is happening when the sun/moon darken/Northern army invasion. This is happening in the 5th and 6th seals. The Bride is given her "white robes"/"fine linen, clean and bright"/"imperishable clothes" at the last trumpet, at the end of the tribulation which is cut short for the sake of the elect of Israel when the sun/moon darken, at a time when the Gospel has been preached as a witness to all nations, BEFORE the Day of the Lord/Day of Wrath begins, before "more martyrs" happen.

Please ...

HisdaughterJen · #9 8th May 2009, 09:39 PM

Originally Posted by Hismessenger

HisdaughterJen,

What is your definition of the word rapture, Harpazo. It is not the same as resurrecting.

hismessenger

What will happen to the church is exactly what is described in 1 Thess 4:13-18.

NJBeliever · #10 8th May 2009, 09:41 PM

The original poster is right! I am so happy to see someone on here cite Joel 2:31. Look at that and Acts 2:20 and you'll see all you need to know. The Day of The Lord will not come until the sun turns black and the moon turns red. And that happens ONCE in the Bible. At the 6th Seal.

The scriptures are very clear on this.