SEC. 141. Alien smuggling and terrorism prevention
“(C) It is a defense to a violation of, or an attempt or conspiracy to violate, clause (iii) or (iv) of subsection (a)(1)(A) for a religious denomination having a bona fide nonprofit, religious organization in the United States, or the agents or officer of such denomination or organization, to encourage, invite, call, allow, or enable an alien who is present in the United States to perform the vocation of a minister or missionary for the denomination or organization in the United States as a volunteer who is not compensated as an employee, notwithstanding the provision of room, board, travel, medical assistance, and other basic living expenses, provided the minister or missionary has been a member of the denomination for at least one year.
Therefore, as God's chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience. Bear with each other and forgive whatever grievances you may have against one another. Forgive as the Lord forgave you. And over all these virtues put on love, which binds them all together in perfect unity. Colossians 3:12-14
Why laugh? You are the only one who thinks the Church should be exempt from US immigration law with regards to missionary service. I've outlined the law with regards to legal immigrant missionary service. I did the work for you. Your turn. Find the law that grants an illegal immigrant permission to work as a religious worker (or any other type of work for that matter) and we will relent.
I cannot fathom any law would exist that turns a blind eye to an illegal immigrant doing any kind of work, religious or secular. Can you?
I'm surprised he doesn't want to do the work. I'm sure he can really defend the mormon church if he did.
__________________ "A dog barks when his master is attacked.
I would be a coward if I saw that God's truth
is attacked and yet would remain silent." John Calvin
Why laugh? You are the only one who thinks the Church should be exempt from US immigration law with regards to missionary service. I've outlined the law with regards to legal immigrant missionary service. I did the work for you. Your turn. Find the law that grants an illegal immigrant permission to work as a religious worker (or any other type of work for that matter) and we will relent.
I cannot fathom any law would exist that turns a blind eye to an illegal immigrant doing any kind of work, religious or secular. Can you?
I haven't remotely suggested that the Church should be exempt from US immigration laws, or any other laws, for that matter. I have simply asked what the US immigration laws are where religious organizations are concerned.
Laws governing churches and other religious organizations often differ from those for businesses, and other types of secular organizations and institutions. I think it would be rather pathetic to go about criticizing and condemning a church or other religious organization, for not complying with some law, that was not even required of it, by law.
__________________
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder; and his name shall be called, Wonderful, Counselor, The Mighty God, The Everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
I haven't remotely suggested that the Church should be exempt from US immigration laws, or any other laws, for that matter. I have simply asked what the US immigration laws are where religious organizations are concerned.
Laws governing churches and other religious organizations often differ from those for businesses, and other types of secular organizations and institutions. I think it would be rather pathetic to go about criticizing and condemning a church or other religious organization, for not complying with some law, that was not even required of it, by law.
But suggesting that illegal immigration is just "some law" is what? Reasonable?
__________________ "Look with the eyes of Thy love upon our manifold imperfections and pardon all our shortcomings, that we may be filled with the brightness of the everlasting light and become the unspotted mirror of Thy power and the image of Thy goodness."
But suggesting that illegal immigration is just "some law" is what? Reasonable?
You still seem to be missing the point. The immigration laws that govern religious organizations may be quite different from the immigration laws that govern businesses and other secular institutions. If a law is written to govern businesses, and a different law is written to govern churches, why criticize a church for not adhering to the law it is not governed by?
And if you want to question what is or is not reasonable, you'd be better off looking at the governments.
My state issues driver's licenses to illegal aliens.
__________________
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder; and his name shall be called, Wonderful, Counselor, The Mighty God, The Everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
You still seem to be missing the point. The immigration laws that govern religious organizations may be quite different from the immigration laws that govern businesses and other secular institutions. If a law is written to govern businesses, and a different law is written to govern churches, why criticize a church for not adhering to the law it is not governed by?
And if you want to question what is or is not reasonable, you'd be better off looking at the governments.
My state issues driver's licenses to illegal aliens.
Are you sure about that?
If I recall correctly the state that you mentioned that you live in, then these are the requirements. (I had to look, because it sounded so strange.)
Only the original or a certified copy of one of the following documents is acceptable:
• Birth Certificate or passport issued from a U.S. territory
• U.S. Passport
• U.S. Citizen Identification Card
• Certificate of Naturalization or Citizenship
• Resident Alien Card
• Temporary Resident Identification Card
• Canadian Passport or Birth Certificate
• Nonresident Alien Canadian Border Crossing Card
• Valid foreign passport with a valid Record of Arrival/Departure
(form 1-94)
• Employment Authorization Card
• Mexican Border Crossing Card with valid 1-94
• A valid foreign passport with a “Processed for 1-551” stamp
• Permanent Resident Re-entry Permit
• Refugee travel document
• Certificate of Identity with a valid 1-94
• Valid 1-94 stamped “Refugee,” “Parole or Parolee,” “Asylee,” or Section 207, Section 208, Section 209, Section 212d(5), HP or PIP Notice of Action (1-797 Approved Petition)
• Immigration judge’s order granting asylum
• Valid 1-94 with attached photo stamped “Processed for 1-551 temporary evidence of lawful admission for permanent residence”
• U.S. Border Crossing ID card and Visa with valid 1-94
This looks like legal aliens may apply for a drivers license, but not illegal aliens. If you disagree, I would be curious to see the source that states otherwise.
FWIW, post number 70 is the amendment that was mentioned in the Salt Lake Tribune article from the OP. From the link in the OP:
The LDS Church has changed its policies about mission calls for undocumented immigrants over time. Previously, they had to return to their country of origin for extended periods of time and then could serve. However, U.S. Sen. Bob Bennett, R-Utah, inserted language into a 2005 agricultural bill that absolves religious organizations of criminal liability for allowing their undocumented members to perform volunteer service, including mission work.
__________________
Therefore, as God's chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience. Bear with each other and forgive whatever grievances you may have against one another. Forgive as the Lord forgave you. And over all these virtues put on love, which binds them all together in perfect unity. Colossians 3:12-14
If I recall correctly the state that you mentioned that you live in, then these are the requirements. (I had to look, because it sounded so strange.)
Only the original or a certified copy of one of the following documents is acceptable:
• Birth Certificate or passport issued from a U.S. territory
• U.S. Passport
• U.S. Citizen Identification Card
• Certificate of Naturalization or Citizenship
• Resident Alien Card
• Temporary Resident Identification Card
• Canadian Passport or Birth Certificate
• Nonresident Alien Canadian Border Crossing Card
• Valid foreign passport with a valid Record of Arrival/Departure
(form 1-94)
• Employment Authorization Card
• Mexican Border Crossing Card with valid 1-94
• A valid foreign passport with a “Processed for 1-551” stamp
• Permanent Resident Re-entry Permit
• Refugee travel document
• Certificate of Identity with a valid 1-94
• Valid 1-94 stamped “Refugee,” “Parole or Parolee,” “Asylee,” or Section 207, Section 208, Section 209, Section 212d(5), HP or PIP Notice of Action (1-797 Approved Petition)
• Immigration judge’s order granting asylum
• Valid 1-94 with attached photo stamped “Processed for 1-551 temporary evidence of lawful admission for permanent residence”
• U.S. Border Crossing ID card and Visa with valid 1-94
This looks like legal aliens may apply for a drivers license, but not illegal aliens. If you disagree, I would be curious to see the source that states otherwise.
FWIW, post number 70 is the amendment that was mentioned in the Salt Lake Tribune article from the OP. From the link in the OP:
The LDS Church has changed its policies about mission calls for undocumented immigrants over time. Previously, they had to return to their country of origin for extended periods of time and then could serve. However, U.S. Sen. Bob Bennett, R-Utah, inserted language into a 2005 agricultural bill that absolves religious organizations of criminal liability for allowing their undocumented members to perform volunteer service, including mission work.
No - I reside in the sad state of Oregon. And supposedly, at the beginning of 2008, Oregon was ceasing the issuance of driver's licenses to illegal aliens, but it was at least as recently as last fall, that I was still hearing news blurbs about it continuing.
Whatever the case, suffice it to say, that the fact that Oregon (or any other state) was issuing driver's licenses to illegals at all, came as quite a shock to me when I heard of it a few years ago.
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder; and his name shall be called, Wonderful, Counselor, The Mighty God, The Everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Higher standards? Obeying the laws on immigration is something all churches should be expected to do. What higher standard are you speaking about?
as the witch hunt against the lds church and members to find anything that the witch hunters think that the lds church and its members have done something that, in their mind, breaches any degree of purity or, in this case, to push the edge on legality, yet at least some christians obviously believe it is perfectly fine for them openly or even intentionally break the law because of their stance as a christian.
This is pretty darned silly, if you axe me (not that anyone did, mind you). To say that one religious group breaks civil laws more than another is absurd. People of all religions, despite what they preach, don't always practice it - and yes, we're ALL guilty. There are adulterers, fornicators and unwed mothers in every religion. There are criminals in every religion. There are liars and cheaters - the list goes on and on. What we should be focusing on is our own integrity and faithfulness to what we believe - as individuals who claim to believe in what Christ taught. Otherwise we're pretty much wasting our time and indeed our lives.
No - I reside in the sad state of Oregon. And supposedly, at the beginning of 2008, Oregon was ceasing the issuance of driver's licenses to illegal aliens, but it was at least as recently as last fall, that I was still hearing news blurbs about it continuing.
Whatever the case, suffice it to say, that the fact that Oregon (or any other state) was issuing driver's licenses to illegals at all, came as quite a shock to me when I heard of it a few years ago.
Here are some links addressing the issue:
I'm sorry, I was mistaken about where you lived, and did not realize that Oregon had this law. From the last link that you posted, it appears that beginning on January 1, 2009, that drivers licenses are no longer being issued to illegal aliens. Thanks for the links.
I am not sure why everyone has ignored the amendment that I posted in post #70, as well as the other law in post #71. From reading them, it is clear that the LDS Church is not breaking a law by sending out missionaries who are illegal aliens. I suppose that the ethics of doing so could be argued, but it should be clear that they are not breaking the law in doing so.
__________________
Therefore, as God's chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience. Bear with each other and forgive whatever grievances you may have against one another. Forgive as the Lord forgave you. And over all these virtues put on love, which binds them all together in perfect unity. Colossians 3:12-14
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