way of the master

Originally Posted by dave712

Has anyone done the way of the mastery boot camp or done the course?
They use the ten commandments to reveal how we have fallen short of Gods standards in every way. Good point to bring across to people who think being a good person will get them to heaven,

It is a foundation in which defines sin. For without the definition of sin, there can be no understanding of what sin is, and thus ultimately no need for a savior from sin.

No need for grace because if you see no sin, hear no sin, and have no understanding of sin, why would would need any saving from it? Hence the need to be taught the definitions of sin, as Yeshua taught with depth, width, and length in its root system.

Sin is insidious and without the Holy Spirit teaching us, through scripture, we would be without an anchor or foundation upon which to base our faith on. For our faith that right is right and wrong is wrong in the eyes of God, come from Scripture.

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Since the Torah is a finite book expressing the will of an infinite God, many lessons must be derivable from each passage from all the infinite angles.

Very good viz. I agree. (only to a point.)
Tha law was made to show man how sinful he was and that he was in much need of a Savior, i.e Christ.

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"So I am willing to endure anything if it will bring salvation and eternal glory in Christ Jesus to those God has chosen."- 2 Timothy 2:10

Originally Posted by 2 King

Very good viz. I agree. (only to a point.)
Tha law was made to show man how sinful he was and that he was in much need of a Savior, i.e Christ.

Yep.. as long as we have free will, we will need to know where the rod and staff are.

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Since the Torah is a finite book expressing the will of an infinite God, many lessons must be derivable from each passage from all the infinite angles.

1. Nothing can separate you from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus your Lord.

For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. (Romans 8:38-39)

Neither death nor anything that happens after death, or anything that happens while you're living can separate you from God's love. If there were no other verse in the Bible that deals with eternal security, this one covers the base.


2. When you are saved, you are made perfect forever.

For by one offering He [Jesus] hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. (Hebrews 10:14)

When Jesus died on the cross, He saved you forever. Jesus offered one sacrifice for sin forever. If you ever lost your salvation, in order for you to be saved again, Jesus would have to die again. By one offering He has perfected forever those who were sanctified.


3. Our Lord always finishes what He begins.

Being confident of this very thing, that He [God] which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ. (Philippians 1:6)

Let me tell you what the Holy Spirit of God does for your salvation. First, He convicted you of sin. Second, He converted you. And the Convictor and the Converter is also the Completer. If God fails to finish what He's begun God has failed and He cannot fail.

4. You are predestined to be like Jesus.

For whom He [God] did foreknow, He also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. (Romans 8:29)

God saw you before this world was put in space. He saw you repent of your sin and ask Jesus to save you. And when God saw that, not only did He foreknow it, but also He predestinated it. If it is settled in eternity how can it be undone in time?


5. You are in Christ.

Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. (2 Corinthians 5:17)

You are in Christ just like Noah was in the ark. The ark was a picture of Jesus and when Noah went into that ark God shut the door. Noah may have fallen down a lot of times in that ark, but he never fell out of it. Your security is not in a place, it is in a Person and His name is Jesus. And if you're in Jesus, you're secure and if you're not in Jesus you're not secure.


6. You already have eternal life.

Heareth My word, and believeth on him that sent Me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. (John 5:24)

Everlasting life is not something you get when you die. Everlasting life is something you get when you receive Jesus. If I have everlasting life, when can it end? Suppose I had it 10 years and it ended. Did I have everlasting life? No, I had a 10-year life. Whatever you have, if you ever lose it, whatever it was it wasn't everlasting.


7. The Lord Jesus Christ is ever interceding for you.

I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given Me; for they are Thine. (John 17:9)

Jesus also prayed: "I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil...Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word" (John 17:15, 20). Has Jesus ever prayed a prayer that wasn't answered? No, not one (see John 11:42 and Hebrews 7:25).


This is precisely the problem I have with the idea that we can lose our salvation.

If we can lose our salvation by doing bad works (ie. sin), then logic dictates that we can keep our salvation by doing good works and if we can keep our salvation by good works, then we must earn our salvation by good works, thus, we are saved by good works and that goes directly against Ephesians 2:8-10.



I would hate to meet the man who can outsin Christ’s ability to keep that which belongs to Him.

If we can lose our salvation by doing bad works (ie. sin), then logic dictates that we can keep our salvation by doing good works and if we can keep our salvation by good works, then we must earn our salvation by good works, thus, we are saved by good works and that goes directly against Ephesians 2:8-10.

.. I believe bad works should be considered works of the flesh.. while not directly contradicting they are not perfectly in harmony with the Spirit of God.... in other words... not blatant sin.

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Since the Torah is a finite book expressing the will of an infinite God, many lessons must be derivable from each passage from all the infinite angles.

Forgive me, HOly Banana, but the above post is extremely hard to read and draw any conclusions as to what your point really is. Forgive me for my simplemindedness.

If you read the entire scripture you're referring to you will see that Christians become dead to the law through repentance and salvation. There is no need for the law when the law is not being broken. We're told our old flesh is crucified with Christ, therefore, dead and the new person resurrected in likeness to Christ being that we will want to do that what is right and do that what we're told in the Word. Not just go and do that what "cherry-picked" verses say but rather all of it.

We should all, if we're soundly saved, have such concern for others that we will be compelled to share our faith. How much must you hate someone to not tell them you've found eternal life?

Serious Faith, you are right. It is the law that tells the lost of what sin really is. Through salvation the law no longer has dominion, true. This is why I continually say and preach those that are "soundly saved". Those who fall away from the faith were never "there" to begin with. This is why everyone says they're Christians and going to heaven yet less than 2% actually share their faith even a little bit and why over 90% of those who "get saved" are out of the church within 4 weeks. Most never make it past week 2. The modern Gospel we're being spoon-fed tells everyone as long as you've prayed some prayer or ask forgiveness or believe John 3:16 you're fine. I call it the sinner's lifejacket. A "get out of hell free" ticket, if you will. Those people obviously either believe Jesus was a liar, and/or the Bible is not true, or have never read Romans, Galatians or Ephesians to just name three books of the NT.

Reading scripture and growing in spirutal wisdom is like gathering water with a sieve. There is a lot of washing with the amount of water used, even if it seems as if there is not much water retained.

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Since the Torah is a finite book expressing the will of an infinite God, many lessons must be derivable from each passage from all the infinite angles.

Why does the word tell us that we must endure until the end to be saved if we have "eternal security"? Why is it so hard to understand that we can not earn our salvation but yet lose it?

The "once for all sacrifice" of Jesus was to stop the sacrificing of animals in law of Moses. Jesus died for the sins of the whole world once for all. This being true does not save everyone, but only those who believe the Gospel, and love and obey God.

The word plainly teaches that anyone who chooses to live a life of sin instead of loving and obeying Christ will not inherit eternal life. This truth, it is plainly written, eternal security is not. Eternal security is an assumption taken from certain scriptures.

What part of Hebrews 10:26-29 is not easily understood? It's plain simple to the point.

Before we move on to these questions, could you please explain why you believe the verses I gave you are not true?

Before we move on to those verses, could you please explain why you believe the verses I showed you are not true?

I'll be happy to address Hebrews 10:26-29 for you but we still have some unfinished business to take care of. Before we hop off to more verses, let's address the verses I showed you, first, OK?

Bro Sam, you have expounded on certain scriptures in a way that contridicts the rest of the word of God. The scriptures that you have chosen to portray eternal security are not in context with the rest of the Bible.

Christ gives us eternal life but He also blots out names from the book if life. Revelation 3:5

God indeed is faithfull to complete the work He begun, and yes God cannot fail. It is we that can become unfaithfull and walk away from Him as many have done. 1 Timothy 4:1

The fact is that Noah could of jumped out the ark just as we can choose to not abide in Christ. IF we keep the faith and endure until the end, and overcome we shall inherit eternal life, that is exactly what Jesus said, so it's obvious that Jesus did not teach eternal security.

Remember that both a non believer and believer has eternal life, either in heaven or in hell. The "eternal life" that Christ gives us is given as we abide in Him. We only have eternal life with Him as we abide in Him. "For we are made partakers of Christ, IF we hold the beginning of our confidence until the end". Hebrews 3:14. The key word is "IF".

Nothing can seperate us from the love of God because God is love. God cannot stop loving because God is love. Nothing can stop us from following God but ourselves. Nothing can make us follow God but ourselves.

We are presdestined to be conformed to the image of His son as we believe and obey His word, just as we are destined to rise in the air IF we jump. God does not make anyone conform into His image against their will, if that were true we would all be Christlike and sinless. Anyone who chooses to believe, love, and follow Jesus is destined to go to heaven. Christ was slain before the foundation of the world, God predestined that those who choose to believe the Gospel will be saved. Conformation into the image of His Son is completed by us being willing to abide and obey His word and Spirit. If it was God's full responsibility to conform us into Christ's image, why is that we still fall into sin at times? Does God stop working in our lives or do we cease to obey?

We are eternally secure by choosing to abide in Christ. As long as we are willing to remain in Him, nothing can pluck us out of His hand, nothing can seperate us from His love. This is sound doctrine. To teach people that they are eternally secure causes many to continue in a life of sin. To teach that if true believers continue or return to a life of sin, they were never really saved, is to say that God only allows a choosen few to sin and go to heaven. Does God only save those He chooses? Is it God's will that the rest perish? No, the Word says, "It is God's will that NONE perish, but that ALL come to repentance". God through His foreknowledge chose to save those who choose to believe in and follow Jesus Christ. "Whosoever will, let him come".

"You therefore, beloved, seeing you know these things before, beware lest you also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from you own stedfastness" 2 Peter 3:17