Why the sabbath was made before sin !

Avonia · #11 16th April 2009, 11:10 AM

Originally Posted by sentipente

Why would one wish to deceive himself that the Genesis account was a eyewitness account? Are we that desperate to support our dogma? What value could the Sabbath have in a world without sin?

Our objection should be what our (SDA) interpretation of Sabbath suggests about our Creator.

Whether or not scripture supports 7th-day Sabbath is not the issue. The issue is the damage we have done with our application of the idea. Division of the human family being top of the "damage" list.

Byfaithalone1 · #12 16th April 2009, 04:50 PM

BFA, welcome back.

Thanks, DND!

Since God does not need to rest (He wearies not, nor tire), why did he rest?

To demonstrate His satisfaction with that which He had made (see Genesis 1:31).

Common sense says, The only reason was that He rested was to set an example for us.

Should we build an entire system of theology on that which one man says is "common sense?"

BFA, Sabbath was also a sign of Israeli deliverance ?

Yes. According to Deutereonomy 5, the sabbath served as a reminder of the Israelites' exodus from Egypt. Note that Genesis 2 precedes the Israelites' exodus from Egypt.

Again you are avoiding the Gen 2 argument raised by my friend.

No. I am pointing out that the sabbath did not merely remind the Israelites of creation. It also reminded them of their exodus from Egypt.

That is whilst the sabbath had a historcal, feastial ignificance it also has permanent value traced in Gen 2.

Can you show us where the sabbath that was given to the Israelites is found in Genesis 2?

"One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind." Romans 14:6

BFA

ricker · #13 16th April 2009, 07:02 PM

Originally Posted by Avonia

Our objection should be what our (SDA) interpretation of Sabbath suggests about our Creator.

Whether or not scripture supports 7th-day Sabbath is not the issue. The issue is the damage we have done with our application of the idea. Division of the human family being top of the "damage" list.

Thank you, Avonia. My presence here isn't to persuade anyone to abandon worship on the Sabbath, but to help people realize there are arguments both ways and Christians not of the SDA persuasion are not necessarily "Babylon", or "apostate", or "nominal" as a certain prolific early Adventist writer has stated.

bugkiller · #14 18th April 2009, 11:41 PM

[quote=dragNdrop;51303703] I NOTICED THAT NON OF US COULD CHALLENGE MY FRIENDS 'ARGUMENTS.

So was this a class or a Bible study about the Sabbath? You had no answer because you had not thoroughly studied the subject, especially about "rested." You are applying an English definition to the translated word from the original "shabat." Shabat means to desist from as in a cease and desist order reflecting a do not do again performance. So the word "rested" has nothing to do with stamina - being tired or without strength.

Incidently outside of Gen 2 "seventh" in reference to a specific week day does not occur in Gen. The word "shabbat" does not appear in Gen either.

bugkiller

Cribstyl · #15 19th April 2009, 06:56 PM

Originally Posted by bugkiller

Originally Posted by dragNdrop

I NOTICED THAT NON OF US COULD CHALLENGE MY FRIENDS 'ARGUMENTS.

Bugkiller:

So was this a class or a Bible study about the Sabbath? You had no answer because you had not thoroughly studied the subject, especially about "rested." You are applying an English definition to the translated word from the original "shabat." Shabat means to desist from as in a cease and desist order reflecting a do not do again performance. So the word "rested" has nothing to do with stamina - being tired or without strength.

Incidently outside of Gen 2 "seventh" in reference to a specific week day does not occur in Gen. The word "shabbat" does not appear in Gen either.

bugkiller

Good read Bugkiller,

D-N-D's questions are not in line with the lesson from texts posted. And by asking ".....

Was not God doing this for our example ?

"

....he's implying that God kept a sabbath as a model for all humanity to follow.

You've correctly presented that God did not take a 24hr break as shabbath (2 b's ) defines.
Shabath (1"b") is defined primarily as "to cease", and Gen 2:1-3 teaches that God rested because He finished.
The dialog about humanity being given rest is questionable and not based on applying understanding to what is written.

When we follow the word of God about the seventh day, the reason for God's resting is explained in each verse about the seventh day.

Gen 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.

Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

Each of these verses above tell us that, God's rest is not a weekly pause, but rather a finish of creation. We cant consider this as an example to follow because His rest is not weekly. This is a response to the OP's arguments.

In peace

CRIB

Doveaman · #16 28th April 2009, 12:22 PM

Originally Posted by dragNdrop

The latest arguments from my SDA friend, made me see that the Sabbat was indeed set before Creation.

“Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. 2And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the
eventh day from all his work which he had made.3And God blessed the
seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made. ” Gen 2:1-3

“For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea,
and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.” Exod 20:11

There are two ways of interpreting the above passages

God rested on a seventh day after six days of creation. Afterwards He declared all the future Saturdays as holy.

Now since the Sabbath was made before sin it cannot fallout due to the Cross. How can the Cross replace an institution made before there was sin ? How can it replace an institution that has nothing to do with humanity's depravity or sin ?
God by laying that first Saturday aside for his rest, was sanctifying that first Saturday. (Remember that to sanctify something is to set it apart for God's use.)

This understanding does not demand that we believe that God was declaring all Saturdays holy before Moses came.

As for the view that God just blessed the first Saturday and not all Saturdays my friend asked a very real question: Was God tired that he should need rest on a seventh day ?. Was not God doing this for our example ? I NOTICED THAT NON OF US COULD CHALLENGE MY FRIENDS 'ARGUMENTS.

Now this opens a new dimension of thought in this debate. If God set a Sabbath before sin or the Fall then the Cross which is a sin solution has nothing to do ith it's sanctity.

The Sabbath rest God establish before sin is not the same Sabbath day rest He established for man according to the 10 commandments.

That Sabbath day rest was just a shadow memorial of God true rest in the beginning, it was not the true rest itself; it was only a shadow reminder of God's true rest.

God's Sabbath rest in the beginning was real. The Sabbath day rest was just a shadow reminder of it, but not the real thing.

Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to...a Sabbath day. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ...Col 2:16-17.

God's true Sabbath rest is in Christ the Word, who was also with God and as God in the beginning when the true rest was established by Him.

God rested in Himself on the seventh day of creation week as He always did from eternity even before creation week began. The rest was in His eternal Self and not on the temporary day itself.

The other six days of creation week had a beginning and an end - evening and morning - but the seventh did not.

This was because the focus was not on the temporary day, but on the rest itself as it actually was in the eternal God Himself, a God without beginning or end, and a Sabbath rest in him without beginning or end

Christ has come as that same eternal God in the flesh, in whom the same eternal Sabbath rest dwells. This is why the Christian Sabbath rest is in Christ alone, and not in the memorial shadow of a day.

Jesus said, "Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me...and you will find rest for your souls"...Matt 11:25, 28-29.

Doveaman · #17 28th April 2009, 12:43 PM

Originally Posted by dragNdrop

Now this opens a new dimension of thought in this debate. If God set a Sabbath before sin or the Fall then the Cross which is a sin solution has nothing to do ith it's sanctity.

SDAs also believe that God set His 10 commandment law before the fall and it was the violation of this law, which included the Sabbath, that caused the fall, resulting in the need for the cross as sin's solution.

Byfaithalone1 · #18 28th April 2009, 02:18 PM

If God established the ten commandments before the fall, why did He allow Deuteronoy 5:1-5 and Galatians 3:15-19 to be written?

BFA

Doveaman · #19 28th April 2009, 02:54 PM

Originally Posted by Byfaithalone1

If God established the ten commandments before the fall, why did He allow Deuteronoy 5:1-5 and Galatians 3:15-19 to be written?

BFA

Excellent post. I totally agree.

StormyOne · #20 28th April 2009, 03:18 PM

Originally Posted by Doveaman

SDAs also believe that God set His 10 commandment law before the fall and it was the violation of this law, which included the Sabbath, that caused the fall, resulting in the need for the cross as sin's solution.

Just because it is believed does not make it true... I do not believe that God gave Adam and Eve the 10 commandments in the garden...