| General Theology The forum for general theological discussions about issues that do not fit in any other forum, eg. Angelology |
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12th August 2004, 03:50 PM
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Reps: 47 (power: 0) | | | Fighting for Gay Marriages....
I guess I go against the bible when I say this. But lately, I have been taking a firm stand for allowing Gay Marriages. I guess you can say that I am trying to be pragmatic about it. I feel that God loves all people regardless of their sexual orientation and I strongly believe that these people did not choose to be gay. My christian friends often share the opposite viewpoint and I wouldnt expect them not to. But I just cant condemn people for wanting something that everyone else experiences. I guess I can compare it with the civil rights act. |
12th August 2004, 04:08 PM
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Reps: 32,786 (power: 43) | | Originally Posted by blackguy32 I guess I go against the bible when I say this. But lately, I have been taking a firm stand for allowing Gay Marriages. I guess you can say that I am trying to be pragmatic about it. I feel that God loves all people regardless of their sexual orientation and I strongly believe that these people did not choose to be gay. My christian friends often share the opposite viewpoint and I wouldnt expect them not to. But I just cant condemn people for wanting something that everyone else experiences. I guess I can compare it with the civil rights act.
We all have a right to an opinion and I respect people for going against the tide, even if I disagree with them.
It could perhaps be argued by Christians that whilst the Bible says that same-sex relationships are wrong (and thus God dislikes gay marriage)there could be a 'free will' case by saying that the Bible doesnt demand gay marriage to be legal. For example the Bible says that adultery is wrong. However adulterers are not criminalised by US law for this act. Sinning (unless it violates another persons rights) should not be illegal because people have the 'free will' to sin. For the state to punish sin (other than immoral sins like rape,murder,theft etc...) would be blasphemy as it would turn the State into God.
As it happens I am personally against gay marriage, but for civil unions. However my opposition against gay marriage is not religious, but based on a cultural arguement.
Marriage as a cultural hetreosexual institution is important to a lot of people (religious and non-religious). To allow gay marriage would undermine something which is culturally important to many people and could even bring a backlash against the gay community.
Marriage has two functions: legal and cultural
It would be grossly unfair for gay couples to miss out on all the legal benefits straight marrieds get. (inheritance rights etc....) However giving them the cultural status of traditional marriage will cause deep resentment amongst many people.
However civil unions should keep both groups happy. Gays will have their legal recognition (and can add their own cultural significance to it if they want) and traditionalists will get to keep the santicity of marriage.  |
12th August 2004, 04:14 PM
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Reps: 2,930 (power: 15) | | Originally Posted by blackguy32 I guess I go against the bible when I say this. But lately, I have been taking a firm stand for allowing Gay Marriages. I guess you can say that I am trying to be pragmatic about it. I feel that God loves all people regardless of their sexual orientation and I strongly believe that these people did not choose to be gay. My christian friends often share the opposite viewpoint and I wouldnt expect them not to. But I just cant condemn people for wanting something that everyone else experiences. I guess I can compare it with the civil rights act.
God does love the sinner, but he hates their sin.
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In the Morning Pray
I thank you, my heavenly Father, through Jesus Christ, Your dear Son, that you have kept me this night from all harm and danger; and I pray that you keep me this day also from every sin and evil, that all my doings and life may please you. For into Your Hand I commend myself, my body and soul and all things. Let your Holy angel be with me, that the evil foe may have no power over me. Amen
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12th August 2004, 04:56 PM
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Reps: 95 (power: 0) | | | Personally, I don't think the government has the right to forbid same-sex unions that would have the same legal benefits of marriage. But, same-sex unions should NOT be consfused with a Judeo-Christian "marriage." This is not condemning anyone, just simply, marriage is a sacred union between man and woman. In the context of Judeo-Christian religion, no sacred union can exist between two people of the same gender, but there is nothing the government should do to stop a legal union from existing if the two people so desire it. To me, restricting such a thing infringes on separation of Church and State. Just to be clear though, I think people take that too far sometimes. For instance, it pains me when people (like John Kerry) use "separation of Church and State" to justify abortion. In a same sex union, no one is doing anything against their will.
Eric
Last edited by eightfoot514; 12th August 2004 at 05:02 PM.
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12th August 2004, 05:05 PM
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Reps: 233,147,813,510,988,768 (power: 233,147,813,511,065) | | | God does love all people regardless of their sexual orientation. HOWEVER, God hates sin and homosexuality is a sin! |
12th August 2004, 05:18 PM
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Reps: 47 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by eightfoot514 Personally, I don't think the government has the right to forbid same-sex unions that would have the same legal benefits of marriage. But, same-sex unions should NOT be consfused with a Judeo-Christian "marriage." This is not condemning anyone, just simply, marriage is a sacred union between man and woman. In the context of Judeo-Christian religion, no sacred union can exist between two people of the same gender, but there is nothing the government should do to stop a legal union from existing if the two people so desire it. To me, restricting such a thing infringes on separation of Church and State. Just to be clear though, I think people take that too far sometimes. For instance, it pains me when people (like John Kerry) use "separation of Church and State" to justify abortion. In a same sex union, no one is doing anything against their will.
Eric
I agree. Perhaps I was arguing for the wrong thing. Perhaps I should be arguing to allow Gays to have civil unions. Keep in mind that I am fighting for them from a purely legal standpoint. They should have the same rights that married couples do. |
12th August 2004, 05:19 PM
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Reps: 307 (power: 0) | | | I think it is annoying that when someone preaches from the Bible and it is against Homosexuality they have the possilibily to get in troulbe for "Hate" Literuature (didn't spell that word right). I think it is wrong for a Pastor of Christianity to marry Gay couples becaus the Bible is against it, but if they get married by the State it is all fine to me even thought it is wrong. Just as long as it dosn't limit what I can read and say things about. taht is all and I'm not sure if I'm getting my point out, just tell me if this doesn't make sence.
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12th August 2004, 05:25 PM
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Reps: 525 (power: 0) | | I am sorry to say this, but you don't really know enough about the things you try to talk about.
- No one denies the fact that God loves homosexuals
- To be loved by God doesn't mean you're saved. God loves the worst of criminals.
- The fact that you're loved by God doesn't mean that your actions are pleasing to him.
- No one "condemns" the people who choose gay lifestyle
- comparing gay marriage to civil rights is wrong because civil rights involved genetic differences between people such as skin color. Homosexuality is NOT proven to be genetic, nor is it as obvious as skin color. Originally Posted by blackguy32 I guess I go against the bible when I say this. But lately, I have been taking a firm stand for allowing Gay Marriages. I guess you can say that I am trying to be pragmatic about it. I feel that God loves all people regardless of their sexual orientation and I strongly believe that these people did not choose to be gay. My christian friends often share the opposite viewpoint and I wouldnt expect them not to. But I just cant condemn people for wanting something that everyone else experiences. I guess I can compare it with the civil rights act. |
12th August 2004, 05:32 PM
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Reps: 47 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by Anti-Fear I am sorry to say this, but you don't really know enough about the things you try to talk about.
- No one denies the fact that God loves homosexuals
- To be loved by God doesn't mean you're saved. God loves the worst of criminals.
- The fact that you're loved by God doesn't mean that your actions are pleasing to him.
- No one "condemns" the people who choose gay lifestyle
- comparing gay marriage to civil rights is wrong because civil rights involved genetic differences between people such as skin color. Homosexuality is NOT proven to be genetic, nor is it as obvious as skin color.
-Of course, God loves all of his creations
-No it doesnt, accepting Christ as your lord and savior means that you are saved.
-I know that I am a sinner, we all are sinners. We will dissappoint God many times in our lives.
-By excluding those that wish to have unions with one another and depriving them of certain rights of visitation, you are inactively excluding them.
-I honestly do not think people choose to be gay. They dont choose to be called "****" or get rights denied from them. They dont choose to be persecuted by homophobics all across the country. It may not be genetic, but it could possibly stem from living conditions and experiences. |
12th August 2004, 06:50 PM
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Reps: 525 (power: 0) | | | Whether they do choose to be gay or not is irrelevant. Straight people dont always choose to lust after someone else, that doesnt mean they should not be rebuked for lusting after someone else and having sex left and right. Same thing with gays. | | |
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