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1st May 2009, 10:25 AM
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Reps: 9,223,372,036,854,775,808 (power: 9,223,372,036,854,800) | | | Vine's Expository Dictionary of the Bible is an excellent resource for those unfamiliar with Greek and Hebrew. | 
4th May 2009, 11:06 PM
| | Junior Member 36  | | Join Date: 9th January 2006 Location: VA near DC
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Reps: 2,441,232,823 (power: 2,441,239) | | Originally Posted by k2svpete KJ isn't the most accurate, there were several deliberate alterations to the text at the time to fit with dominant religous though.
The most accurate NT we have readily available is the RSV and for the OT a septugrant is the bees knees. An interlinear bible is invaluable as well as a decent concordance. If you want to get serious books on Hebrew and Geek grammar or a lexicon is a must.
Even if you become an expert at ancient greek, you still have the problem of deciding which greek manuscripts to translate, they weren't all the same.
My biggest issue with people trying to say that the gospels are the word of God and all true is that they all say different things. Why do all 4 gospels have completely different accounts of what happened after Jesus' death? Read the last 1 or 2 chapters of each gospel and write a summary, none of them are the same.
Can't people just believe that they are stories about Jesus that were inspired by him and not some word-for-word literal word of God? If you say that you believe every word in the bible then your beliefs have to change with every chapter you read. | 
5th May 2009, 09:54 AM
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Reps: 9,223,372,036,854,775,808 (power: 9,223,372,036,854,800) | | Originally Posted by rockytriton Even if you become an expert at ancient greek, you still have the problem of deciding which greek manuscripts to translate, they weren't all the same.
My biggest issue with people trying to say that the gospels are the word of God and all true is that they all say different things. Why do all 4 gospels have completely different accounts of what happened after Jesus' death? Read the last 1 or 2 chapters of each gospel and write a summary, none of them are the same.
Can't people just believe that they are stories about Jesus that were inspired by him and not some word-for-word literal word of God? If you say that you believe every word in the bible then your beliefs have to change with every chapter you read.
The variations between the gospels are amazingly minor especially in light of the fact that hundreds of ancient manuscripts have survived. The bottom line is that there is no significant differences between them which alter core beliefs of the Christian faith. All present accounts of the incarnation, life, death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ which assert the same beliefs. The synoptic gospels (Matthew, Mark, and Luke) are so similar to each other than some believe that two were copied and revised from one of them (which one varies according to various people).
Concerning the accounts of the resurrection, there are differences between the gospels in the details. There have been explanations which harmonize these accounts. Whether you choose to believe them or not does not alter the fact that all four accounts clearly state that Jesus Christ rose from the dead on the third day. That is the core belief of Christianity. | 
7th May 2009, 07:24 PM
| | Junior Member 36  | | Join Date: 9th January 2006 Location: VA near DC
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Reps: 2,441,232,823 (power: 2,441,239) | | Originally Posted by bbbbbbb The variations between the gospels are amazingly minor especially in light of the fact that hundreds of ancient manuscripts have survived. The bottom line is that there is no significant differences between them which alter core beliefs of the Christian faith. All present accounts of the incarnation, life, death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ which assert the same beliefs. The synoptic gospels (Matthew, Mark, and Luke) are so similar to each other than some believe that two were copied and revised from one of them (which one varies according to various people).
Concerning the accounts of the resurrection, there are differences between the gospels in the details. There have been explanations which harmonize these accounts. Whether you choose to believe them or not does not alter the fact that all four accounts clearly state that Jesus Christ rose from the dead on the third day. That is the core belief of Christianity.
I've heard some of the arguments which try to make them sound like they are saying exactly the same thing, but they are outlandish. Don't get my wrong, I find nothing wrong with believing all of them in the sense that they are saying basically the same things and that the low level details don't really matter, they were written by men based on stories they were told, so they are very likely to change small details.
The only problem that I have is with people who say that every single word is literally true, that's just crazy, that's like saying a + b = c and c - b = a + 1. Either one can be true, but they can't both be true.
Early christians had faith in God and in Jesus, they didn't have faith in a book, it didn't exist, just stories they were told here and there and they most certainly didn't believe all the stories they were told. | 
7th May 2009, 10:57 PM
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Reps: 9,223,372,036,854,775,808 (power: 9,223,372,036,854,800) | | Originally Posted by rockytriton I've heard some of the arguments which try to make them sound like they are saying exactly the same thing, but they are outlandish. Don't get my wrong, I find nothing wrong with believing all of them in the sense that they are saying basically the same things and that the low level details don't really matter, they were written by men based on stories they were told, so they are very likely to change small details.
The only problem that I have is with people who say that every single word is literally true, that's just crazy, that's like saying a + b = c and c - b = a + 1. Either one can be true, but they can't both be true.
Early christians had faith in God and in Jesus, they didn't have faith in a book, it didn't exist, just stories they were told here and there and they most certainly didn't believe all the stories they were told.
One thing that has always surprised me is that the compilers or the Bible and their successors chose to copy the Bible verbatim, warts and all. It would have been so much simpler for them to have edited the Bible to eliminate any inconsistencies. Of course, that doesn't make it easy for those who have followed, but I greatly admire their consistency and honesty. | 
7th May 2009, 11:04 PM
| | Junior Member 36  | | Join Date: 9th January 2006 Location: VA near DC
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Reps: 2,441,232,823 (power: 2,441,239) | | Originally Posted by bbbbbbb One thing that has always surprised me is that the compilers or the Bible and their successors chose to copy the Bible verbatim, warts and all. It would have been so much simpler for them to have edited the Bible to eliminate any inconsistencies. Of course, that doesn't make it easy for those who have followed, but I greatly admire their consistency and honesty.
that's not entirely true. There have been many instances of scribes changing words or phrases intentionally, they usually wrote notes in the margins which explained their reasons. | 
8th May 2009, 10:53 AM
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Reps: 9,223,372,036,854,775,808 (power: 9,223,372,036,854,800) | | Originally Posted by rockytriton that's not entirely true. There have been many instances of scribes changing words or phrases intentionally, they usually wrote notes in the margins which explained their reasons.
Those alterations are usually fairly evident when comparing manuscripts.
This reminds me of a revision of the Bible that was briefly popular in the Black community following the death of Martin Luther King, Jr. There were some Bibles published which added some of the speeches and sermons of Dr. King, Jr., believing they were as inspired as the Bible. Ironically, his quote from Amos (Let the waters roll down . . .) is carved in granite at his historic site in Atlanta - and is not attributed to Amos, but to him! | 
29th May 2009, 02:45 AM
|  | The Prodigal Daughter 24 
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Reps: 254,627,878 (power: 254,636) | | | I will say this, while I think the NIV is great for reading the Bible like a novel, I do not consider it inspired. The Bible says not to take or add words to the Word of God (no matter what your view of the verse in Rev)... NIV flat out deletes Matthew 17:21. It doesn't even try to hide it or reword it. It just flat out deletes it. Don't believe me? Go check your NIV it will skip from verse 20 to 22. What does that missing verse say? "Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting." Hmm... I'd hate to think of what faith that moves mountains is without prayer and fasting, but whomever compiled the NIV thought Jesus was not correct that in prayer and fasting are important, otherwise they wouldn't have deleted it.
__________________ "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." --Acts 2:38 | 
1st June 2009, 11:29 PM
| | Junior Member 36  | | Join Date: 9th January 2006 Location: VA near DC
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Reps: 2,441,232,823 (power: 2,441,239) | | | my guess is that it's not an omission, it most likely uses different sources than the KJV. The KJV is not the definitive source of Christian scripture, it was translated from different manuscripts. The NIV wasn't a different translation of KJV, it's a different translation of the other manuscripts. Also, the oldest surviving manuscript of John doesn't have the "let him who is without sin cast the first stone" section in it, the whole part is just not there. It's not missing, it's just skipped. Some think it was a later addition. So it depends on the manuscripts that are used. Saying that the KJV is the inspired version by God and that the originals are not the true sources is like saying that a Britney Spears remake of Beethoven's 5th is the truely inspired version and the original is meaningless. | 
1st June 2009, 11:31 PM
| | Junior Member 36  | | Join Date: 9th January 2006 Location: VA near DC
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Reps: 2,441,232,823 (power: 2,441,239) | | here's an interesting link on the topic 'Omissions' from the NIV Bible |  | | | Thread Tools | | | | Display Modes | Linear Mode | | | |