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Creation & Evolution Forum for the discussion of this important topic. This forum is open to non-believers. There is a Christians-only forum in the Christians-only section too.

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  #1  
Old 12th March 2009, 09:42 AM
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What if evolution and creation are both true

Here is how evolution and 6 day creation could both be true.

It is said that god can see the beginning and the end, that he exists outside of time, and that he is absolutely unlimited in his power.

So.... maybe he decided to just start in the middle of time. Create everything that ever happened, and ever will happen, all at once. Like he opened a book in the middle, and created all the pages before and after at the same moment.

That way, the millions of years of evolution are perfectly valid, they really happened. God just chose the moment at which people had finally arrived at our present state as the time when he created the whole thing.
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  #2  
Old 12th March 2009, 09:48 AM
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That sure makes more sense than the alternative. It would still be "the begining".
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Old 12th March 2009, 09:59 AM
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Good question. If it doesn't contradict with the evidence then I agree it's possible.

Compared to America, most theists in Europe acknowledge evolution as the best explanation of 'the origin of species' and refer god to the field of abiogenisis: ie: 'the origin of life'.
We know how life can evolve once it's already there, but how it can start is still not certain. So a god creating the seeds of life with the knowledge that evolution would eventually create us us homo sapiens is still a nice thought if you ask me.

However if you claim it happens somewhere in the middle, as in: half creation and half evolution it raises another question:

If a process can be explained entirely by natural means, why resort to a supernatural explanation?
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Sigmund Freud [1856-1939] (Austrian physician and pioneer psychoanalyst) said:

"It would be very nice if there were a God who created the world and was a benevolent providence, and if there were a moral order in the universe and an after-life; but it is a very striking fact that all this is exactly as we are bound to wish it to be."
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  #4  
Old 12th March 2009, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Ectezus View Post
Good question. If it doesn't contradict with the evidence then I agree it's possible.

Compared to America, most theists in Europe acknowledge evolution as the best explanation of 'the origin of species' and refer god to the field of abiogenisis: ie: 'the origin of life'.
We know how life can evolve once it's already there, but how it can start is still not certain. So a god creating the seeds of life with the knowledge that evolution would eventually create us us homo sapiens is still a nice thought if you ask me.

However if you claim it happens somewhere in the middle, as in: half creation and half evolution it raises another question:

If a process can be explained entirely by natural means, why resort to a supernatural explanation?


As for why the supernatural, that would have a lot to do with human psychology. One reason it would be interesting to contact an alien civilization would be to see if they think the same way!
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  #5  
Old 12th March 2009, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Hespera View Post
Here is how evolution and 6 day creation could both be true.

It is said that god can see the beginning and the end, that he exists outside of time, and that he is absolutely unlimited in his power.

So.... maybe he decided to just start in the middle of time. Create everything that ever happened, and ever will happen, all at once. Like he opened a book in the middle, and created all the pages before and after at the same moment.

That way, the millions of years of evolution are perfectly valid, they really happened. God just chose the moment at which people had finally arrived at our present state as the time when he created the whole thing.
And cue AV entering and saying that this is Omphalos, and that embedded age is so much better.

That aside, yes, you're absolutely right, this is of course possible. But frankly, it still has the inherent problem of why bother to make a bunch of prior "pages." I find TE a bit more helpful as I just take what's created as what was intended.

The fact that God COULD do it any way means the way it actually DID happen is neither here nor there, ultimately - I'd much rather this debate gave way to something a little more productive on the Christian front at any rate.
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  #6  
Old 12th March 2009, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Cabal View Post
And cue AV entering and saying that this is Omphalos, and that embedded age is so much better.
I would say this is more of a combination of Gap Theory with Theistic Evolution than Omphalism.
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Old 12th March 2009, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Cabal View Post
And cue AV entering and saying that this is Omphalos, and that embedded age is so much better.

That aside, yes, you're absolutely right, this is of course possible. But frankly, it still has the inherent problem of why bother to make a bunch of prior "pages." I find TE a bit more helpful as I just take what's created as what was intended.

The fact that God COULD do it any way means the way it actually DID happen is neither here nor there, ultimately - I'd much rather this debate gave way to something a little more productive on the Christian front at any rate.

AV has me on ignore for offering an opinion he didnt care for. I have him on ig because I dont want to see his nonsense. I was kind of hoping he would stay out of this. I dont know what an omphalops is supposed to be and dont care to know.

Personally i think the idea i put forward is totally ridiculous. But if a 6-dayer likes it enough to think creation and evolution are both POSSIBLE. assuming a God, then they could quit the arguments and actually learn some really interesting things about the world that they have ideologically refused to look at before.

And quit discrediting all of Christian belief by claiming it is necessary to also believe in the kind of fatuous ideas that are put forward to try to "disprove" evolution. it is a long lost cause anyway, nobody has ever come up with fact one and never will.
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Old 12th March 2009, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Hespera View Post
Personally i think the idea i put forward is totally ridiculous. But if a 6-dayer likes it enough to think creation and evolution are both POSSIBLE. assuming a God, then they could quit the arguments and actually learn some really interesting things about the world that they have ideologically refused to look at before.
Exactly - if nothing else, it'll possibly generate some independent thought....

Originally Posted by Hespera View Post
And quit discrediting all of Christian belief by claiming it is necessary to also believe in the kind of fatuous ideas that are put forward to try to "disprove" evolution. it is a long lost cause anyway, nobody has ever come up with fact one and never will.
There's no reason why evolution can't be reconciled - and given its validity, it makes sense to attempt to reconcile it properly.
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Old 13th March 2009, 10:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Hespera View Post
I dont know what an omphalops is supposed to be and dont care to know.
I think it means an eyeball in your navel.
(I know you don't care to know, but I don't care.)

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Old 13th March 2009, 10:29 PM
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eeewwwwhhhhhh I just KNEW I did not want to know.
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