Well I've always wanted to go to Australia. It seems so I will have my chance without having to fly such periods of time in coach that it should be against the law.
And I want my mandatory boomerang.
It tells something about the absurdity of the material that we have moved on to discuss universal health care instead of Obamas impeachment.
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Darth Goldstein: "I find your lack of capital gain disturbing."
"It is a fool's prerogative to utter truths that no one else will speak."
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Well I've always wanted to go to Australia. It seems so I will have my chance without having to fly such periods of time in coach that it should be against the law.
And I want my mandatory boomerang.
It tells something about the absurdity of the material that we have moved on to discuss universal health care instead of Obamas impeachment.
Trust me. You don't want a boomerang. You try and throw it away... and it just keeps coming back to you.
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“Our reason suffers the peculiar fate that … it is beset by questions which it cannot set aside, as they arise from the nature of Reason itself; but these questions it cannot answer, for they transcend all the powers of Reason.” - Immanuel Kant. Critique of Pure Reason. 1781
Note: J.R.R. Tolkien once said, "All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us." At the present time I'm pre-occupied with other more urgent issues that demand my full attention, and so I'll be off CF for several months. Wishing you well, Mithrandir.
Illegitimate children Clirus? So, you don't want abortion. But you don't want to help illegitimate children either. That's not hyporcitical at all.
You offer those people love. A way to get out of their addictions, and for the children, you give them everything that other children get. Healthcare, rights, education.
Response
Neither illegitimate children nor abortion exist if God's Law on adultery and fornication are followed.
After sin has been committed there is no cure, just a lot of bad options.
The only successful program I know for getting out of addiction is AAA, and the first thing required is an admission of addiction (similar to repentance of Christianity). After that, the love and support of fellow addicts.
Giving a drunk a drink does not cause them to stop drinking.
Condoning sin does not cause anyone to stop sinning.
Should a political system that is the embodiment of Christ provide health care/welfare for those poor, weak and unfortunate that have that condition because they violated Christian Principles and have sinned against God?
faith guardian response
The answer to that would be a resounding YES! It's what Jesus would have done, and what He commanded us to do. You now, love your enemy, do good to those who persecute you, do to others as you would have them do to you... All that jazz. Personally, that is what I consider the very core of Christianity. As for illegitimate children, they are not at fault. And should not be penalized for any sin their parents may have committed. Jeremiah 31:29-32 (New International Version) says:
29 "In those days people will no longer say,
'The fathers have eaten sour grapes,
and the children's teeth are set on edge.'
30 Instead, everyone will die for his own sin; whoever eats sour grapes—his own teeth will be set on edge.
So we should not penalize them for that. But rather show them love.
Response
TEN COMMANDMENTS Exodus 20:3–17;
3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me. 4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: 5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; 6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments. 7 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain. 8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: 11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee. 13 Thou shalt not kill. 14 Thou shalt not commit adultery. 15 Thou shalt not steal. 16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour. 17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.
Note the part about. "Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; 6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments."
The parents of an illegitimate child have not kept the commandments.
A good solution would be to execute the father, then deal with the mother and child as widows and orphans. That would be consistent with the following verse in the Bible.
I Timothy 5:8 states, "But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel."
LOVING YOUR ENEMIES
Is Satan your enemy?
Do you love Satan?
The concept of loving your enemies was to prevent trivial things from being escalated into killing, by turning the other cheek for trivial insults.
I do not believe loving your enemy was ever intended to excuse sinful behavior.
After seeing the video showing all the welfare benefits of Norway, my first thought was how come Norway does not have a problem similar to the illegal Mexicans in America.
Then I found the following article.
Since the words "asylum seekers", is used instead of immigrants, I assume Norway does not allow immigration.
No, not really. An asylum seeker is a refugee. Someone who flees from oppression, war, persecution or the like.
In addition to asylum seekers we have a high number of immigrants.
Originally Posted by clirus
And even the number of asylum seekers is being reduced.
Yes, it is. But we have open borders for immigration from many countries. Most (or is it all?) EEC countries. And Americans have an easy time coming into Norway. My wife is an immigrant from the US. She is not an asylum seeker though. I thought I should make that clear
Originally Posted by clirus
Socialism is a workable system in a closed society where there are vast natural resources. But, can you keep the society closed and what happens if the price of the natural resources goes down or the natural resources run out.
This is interesting Clirus, I must admit. Interesting to read your perceptions of my everyday life. I disagree with you. I mean, Sweden, Denmark, Finland... These countries are also social democracies without our vast resources, and they still do exceptionally well.
Originally Posted by clirus
I will admit that the Norway Nuclear Power Policy is good. Norway must have figured out a way to prevent the immigration of environmentalists into Norway.
Eh... Not really true. The environment is in the high seat here in Norway. At least we like to try to put it there. It seems you also seem to apply some fairly incorrect and highly stereotypical impression of a vast group of people. Things are not black and white. Not all socialists are communists, and not all communists are murderous atheists. Not all environmentalists are against nuclear power either.
"It is necessary to take measures to decrease the numbers of asylum seekers without a need for protection," says Prime Minister Jens Stoltenberg.
9/5/2008 :: Norway has, next to the Netherlands, experienced the largest increase in the arrivals of asylum seekers in Europe in 2008. So far this year more than twice as many asylum seekers has arrived compared to the same period of last year. 60 per cent of the applications for asylum are rejected. In 2007 Norway received 6 500 asylum seekers and this year around 15 000 arrivals are expected. The main reason for the increase are developments in the home countries of the asylum seekers. How the Norwegian asylum policy is perceived, especially in comparison with comparable countries like Sweden, may also explain the distribution of asylum seekers to various European countries.
The Government is concerned with protecting the right of asylum for refugees, and with the rapid inclusion of those granted protection into the Norwegian society.
"It is therefore necessary to take measures to decrease the number of arriving asylum seekers who do not meet the conditions for protection," says Minister of Labour and Social Inclusion Dag Terje Andersen.
Yes, we are tightening the number of asylum seekers. I think it is necessary, and the reason is cultural disharmony:
Their culture is very very different from ours. Most immigrants come from countries with similar cultures, and as such integration into the Norwegian society is easier. If you come from a corrupt, war-torn country then you will naturally have some difficulty adjusting to the new culture. Culture shock is natural, even if you come from the US to Norway (or the other way around). But - if the difference is infinitely larger, the shock is infinitely larger as well.
The cultural differences have caused problems. And due to this (in part at least) Norway is now leaning towards right wing, borderline racist policies. I think that is tragic however. But I do not think it is an argument against the socialist policies we have. Yes, these asylum seekers are more prone to abuse their privileges and rights than ethnic Norwegians for cultural reasons. But the source of Norwegian discontent is more akin to a fairly severe culture shock.
So I don't see how this is pertinent to the discussion at hand.
I also note you don't address most of what my posts contain.
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Originally Posted by Martin Luther King Jr.
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Man must evolve for all human conflict a method which rejects revenge, aggression and retaliation. The foundation of such a method is love.
Originally Posted by Bertrand Russell
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Advocates of capitalism are very apt to appeal to the sacred principles of liberty, which are embodied in one maxim:
The fortunate must not be restrained in the exercise of tyranny over the unfortunate.
"no man can serve two masters; ye cannot serve both God and mammon." - Bible (Matthew 6:24)
The best part of this thread is watching Clirus get owned by Faith Guardian. It's lovely when people act like they know what they're talking about when really they are just spouting nonsense. And the best part, is when they're in a corner and then start making up things such as porn being "invented in the 60s." LOL. Dude, watch The History Channel or something.
I second the call by FG for Clirus to make some substantive responses to the content.
I'm convinced that social democracy is the ideal way to go. I've felt that way for many years...just sharing the thought.
Yes, we are tightening the number of asylum seekers. I think it is necessary, and the reason is cultural disharmony:
Their culture is very very different from ours. Most immigrants come from countries with similar cultures, and as such integration into the Norwegian society is easier. If you come from a corrupt, war-torn country then you will naturally have some difficulty adjusting to the new culture. Culture shock is natural, even if you come from the US to Norway (or the other way around). But - if the difference is infinitely larger, the shock is infinitely larger as well.
The cultural differences have caused problems. And due to this (in part at least) Norway is now leaning towards right wing, borderline racist policies. I think that is tragic however. But I do not think it is an argument against the socialist policies we have. Yes, these asylum seekers are more prone to abuse their privileges and rights than ethnic Norwegians for cultural reasons. But the source of Norwegian discontent is more akin to a fairly severe culture shock.
So I don't see how this is pertinent to the discussion at hand.
I also note you don't address most of what my posts contain.
Response
Although what you say is true, it would be called racism in America.
This is pertinent because it shows the cracks in the myth of socialist utopias.
I wish I had time to address all the issues, but I do all I can.
PS Do you consider Iceland as part of the socialistic countries that are doing quite well?
PS You do not address all of my posts such as LOVING YOUR ENEMIES.
Last edited by clirus; 16th March 2009 at 06:27 PM.
Reason: Added paragraph
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Originally Posted by faith guardian
Ooooh! Oooh! Does that mean I can get a didgeridoo and go hunting kangaroos? YAYYYYYYY!!!!
Our Mary isn't going to tolerate that sort of flippancy once she takes over. Just watch yourself, and prepare to bow down and pay homage to your Australian overlords.
Although what you say is true, it would be called racism in America.
This is pertinent because it shows the cracks in the myth of socialist utopias.
How does it show these 'cracks', Clirus? Do you mean that all socialists should be perfect? I am not saying Norway is a perfect country. We have issues, and this is one of them. But what I am and have been saying is that socialistic democracy is the best option out there.
Also, I disagree with your idea that it is racism. At least my own opinions do not really qualify. Racism means that you consider one race superior to another, something I never said. I merely pointed out that there can be cultural difficulties we are not skilled enough to overcome. Maybe they cannot be overcome. But if you ask if there is racism in Norway, the answer is yes. There is. And sadly, I think it is growing
I do fail to see how that is relevant to whether or not socialism works though. There's racism in the US too. And other big problems. As is clear from former posts I have made Norway has a lot less problems than the US. Though that does not mean we are problem free.
Originally Posted by clirus
I wish I had time to address all the issues, but I do all I can.
PS Do you consider Iceland as part of the socialistic countries that are doing quite well?
PS You do not address all of my posts such as LOVING YOUR ENEMIES.
Care to repeat your question on loving your enemies then? I must have missed that.
ICeland? Yes, in part. They are a socialistic democracy I believe. But if you are referring to their recent collapse I think you should be aware that this collapse was caused largely by a lack of governmental control over the banking system in the country. Which would be a capitalist element to the Icelandic system.
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Originally Posted by Martin Luther King Jr.
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Man must evolve for all human conflict a method which rejects revenge, aggression and retaliation. The foundation of such a method is love.
Originally Posted by Bertrand Russell
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. dir="ltr">
Advocates of capitalism are very apt to appeal to the sacred principles of liberty, which are embodied in one maxim:
The fortunate must not be restrained in the exercise of tyranny over the unfortunate.
"no man can serve two masters; ye cannot serve both God and mammon." - Bible (Matthew 6:24)
Last edited by faith guardian; 17th March 2009 at 03:25 PM.
YAYYYYYYY!!!!
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