I will make clear my orignal point that it is me feverant belief that working class Protestants endured the same abject poverty as the RC counterpoints!
that they could not be arsed supporting the border campaign.
lol. My friend one only has to look at the ROI or indeed the Free State after Partition to prove that even the most bitter fears of ye common Protestant where quite well justified!
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"That's the great thing about Catholicism; it's so vague and no one really knows what it's all about." (Father Ted Crilly)
William Craig,Vanguard Ulster Unionists William Craig ?
Not very highly to put it succinctly. I think he and the Rev Martin Smyth did their fair share to add to the polarisation of communities and make political capital from feeding the fears of poor Unionists. They added significantly to the hatred in Northern Ireland.
His attitude towards a peaceful, pluralist N. Ireland can be illustrated by the following : "We must build up the dossiers on the men and women who are a menace to this country, because one day, ladies and gentlemen, if the politicians fail, it will be our duty to liquidate the enemy."
Nice.
__________________ In the hope that one day there will be a preferential option for the poor.
This is mainly about the rise of Unionist terrorism in 1969 following their fears of loss of security and supremacy with the disbanding of the B specials and the increased radicalisation of the Civil Rights movement.
I'm not sure what point you are trying to make.
Let me re-iterate my point again. One of the major factors contributing to the modern conflict in Ulster was the comparative underepresentation in security forces, judiciary, public sector employment, local government etc of the Nationalist community COMPARED to their Unionist counterparts. A complete lack of any sort of power whatsoever.
Subjugate and humiliate a large part of your community and there will be consequences; as I think we have agreed.
I'm still wondering what you meant when you said that it wasn't the Unionist goverment's fault that the Nationalists were Roman Catholic. What did you mean and what was your point ?
BTW, the video you have posted really does not help your claim that the DUP had no links with paramilitaries. Listen carefully to what Paisley says.
__________________ In the hope that one day there will be a preferential option for the poor.
Last edited by Oneofthediaspora; 12th October 2009 at 04:02 AM.
1. Mandates are wonderfull things are they not? The DUP where voted in as the majority Unionist Party because the UUP had already shown that it was weak and divided. What other choice? Direct rule from Westminister. Regardless power sharing is the only way forward in Northern Ireland.
Really not sure what point you are making here.
Originally Posted by TeutonKnight
2. At the same time that PD and the Civil Rights movement where parading for so called equality working class Protestants where in the same situation. Living in slums and in poor conditions. Not encouraged to better themselves. The fact of the matter is they did not complain and yet they where abused by Stormont just as much. The Unionist or rather Big house Unionism was a law onto itself. It was not about religion at all. Please don't give me that speel about Lord Craigavon, that was said in a different time and context.
It may or may not have been about religion. Neither was it about poverty. It was certainly about discrimination, political and institutional. Unionists may have been poor. They were not however disbarred from cleaning council premises, or from working in the shipyards.
Originally Posted by TeutonKnight
3. Despite your own views on Ian Paisley he was the voice of the silent majority in the 1960s thw very same people who the Dictators in Glengall Street had forgotten about. Like or lump it his views where held by the vast majority of traditional Protestant voters in NI. Again a different time and a different context.
Silent majority my foot. He was a rabble rouser and remained one for the duration of his career. He kicked himself off protesting in favour of gerrymandering. He had direct links to paramilitary activity; through his chairmanship of the UCDC he excercised control over the UPV, and was also involved in gun smuggling from apartheid south africa.
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I will make clear my orignal point that it is me feverant belief that working class Protestants endured the same abject poverty as the RC counterpoints!
Why on earth are you persisting with this point as though I am feverantly (or even fervently) disagreeing with you ?
Do you understand what discrimination means ?
It means biased treatment of one group compared with another group.
We are talking here about disenfrenchisement, gerrymandering, active exclusion from judiciary, security forces and public sector emloyment, unequal housing allocation, exclusion from the more lucrative working class private sectors such as Harland and Wolfe etc, etc.
__________________ In the hope that one day there will be a preferential option for the poor.
It may or may not have been about religion. Neither was it about poverty. It was certainly about discrimination, political and institutional. Unionists may have been poor. They were not however disbarred from cleaning council premises, or from working in the shipyards.
Silent majority my foot. He was a rabble rouser and remained one for the duration of his career. He kicked himself off protesting in favour of gerrymandering. He had direct links to paramilitary activity; through his chairmanship of the UCDC he excercised control over the UPV, and was also involved in gun smuggling from apartheid south africa.
My point is taht people voted for them and what teh people want they get.
Silent Majority of the mass disatisfaction of working class Protestants correct. Ask anyone who was about in them days during the early to late 1960s.
Roman Catholics where not barred from working in H&W. A well known fact.
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"That's the great thing about Catholicism; it's so vague and no one really knows what it's all about." (Father Ted Crilly)
William Craig,Vanguard Ulster Unionists William Craig ?
Not very highly to put it succinctly. I think he and the Rev Martin Smyth did their fair share to add to the polarisation of communities and make political capital from feeding the fears of poor Unionists. They added significantly to the hatred in Northern Ireland.
His attitude towards a peaceful, pluralist N. Ireland can be illustrated by the following : "We must build up the dossiers on the men and women who are a menace to this country, because one day, ladies and gentlemen, if the politicians fail, it will be our duty to liquidate the enemy."
Nice.
Glad you picked up on that. Bill Craig was an interesting character alright and indeed represented a form of forward acting Unionism that is now dead.
I disagree the Rev Martin Smyth is a gentleman and I won't hear slander about him. Having met him on numerous occasions and heard him preach I believe that he is a Christian. As you aware he took over the seat from Rev Robet Bradford who was shot by the IRA.
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"That's the great thing about Catholicism; it's so vague and no one really knows what it's all about." (Father Ted Crilly)
My point is taht people voted for them and what teh people want they get.
That is not a very profound or interesting point.
Originally Posted by TeutonKnight
Silent Majority of the mass disatisfaction of working class Protestants correct. Ask anyone who was about in them days during the early to late 1960s.
For some reason you want to turn this into a class issue. Nothing to do with class, everything to do with gerrymandering discrimination and bigotry.
Originally Posted by TeutonKnight
Roman Catholics where not barred from working in H&W. A well known fact.
I didn't say they were. If you are seriously going to argue that there was no discrimination in unemployment in Northern Ireland then please go ahead. This should be entertaining.
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