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17th March 2009, 08:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Col3_11n12  Let's see...Israel is not apartheid. But anyone who is anti-Israel is racist.
Yup. Makes perfect sense to me. 
Does this make sense to ya??
NO self defense and policing policies are not appartheid 
Israel is no worse to the Palestinians than their Arab so called supporters.
Why wont they allow the Palestinians to move to their countries. Unfulfilled Arab Pledges The historical Arab perspective on financial aid to the Palestinians is that the West created the problem
(through the establishment of the state of Israel and the creation of the Palestinian refugee situation), so the
West should pay for it. Hence, the budget of the UN Relief and Works Agency, which has looked after
Palestinian refugees since 1950, is financed mainly by Western governments—at $127 million in 2004, the
United States is the largest national contributor. The Arab world does promise to help out directly during times
of particular difficulty; in general, however, fulfillment of commitments is often poor. According to the PA,
Arab states pledged $999 million in aid for 2004, of which $572 million was pledged by Arab members of
OPEC (other than Iraq). Only $107 million of this aid was actually delivered, however, of which $105 million
came from OPEC members. That leaves $892 million still owed by Arab states, including $467 million from
OPEC members (other than Iraq). The largest amounts pledged but not delivered were from Libya ($148
million), Kuwait ($140 million), Iraq ($132 million pledged while Saddam Hussein was still in power), Egypt
($105 million), and Algeria ($86 million).
According to PA data, of the $107 million actually received in 2004, $92 million came from Saudi Arabia.
While that constitutes the entire amount pledged by the Saudis, it pales in comparison with the more than $20 billion in additional income that Riyadh received last year because of high oil prices, as compared with 2003
revenues. Last week the Saudi oil minister predicted prices in the range of $40–50 per barrel this year,
suggesting a similar windfall for 2005. To put these figures in perspective, the kingdom’s 2004 aid to the PA
works out to $252,000 per day—not much more than the $150,000 that King Fahd’s entourage reportedly
spent on floral arrangements when the ailing Saudi monarch vacationed in southern Spain in 2002. U.S.
officials report that efforts to persuade the Saudis to be more generous are met with the argument that
Washington should first persuade other Arab states to fulfill their missing back payments.
Probe Urged over Chas Freeman, Obama’s Anti-Israel Intel Pick 'Serious concerns'
Democratic Whip Cantor stated, “[Freeman’s] statements about the U.S.-Israel relationship raise serious concerns about his ability to support the Administration’s attempts to bring security, stability and peace to the Middle East. As director of the NIC, Freeman would be in charge of drafting the National Intelligence Estimate and evaluating the strategic outlook of our nation. This selection threatens to politicize the intelligence community. I urge President Obama to reconsider this decision."
Freeman has a long record of supporting Saudi Arabia and has made statements perceived as favoring Hamas while charging that the U.S. relationship with Israel is damaging to peace. http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/130263
October 24, 2008 Barack Obama’s Anti-Israel Alliances
Barack Obama claims to be a supporter of Israel and a friend of the Jewish people. But many of the people who helped him in the course of his rise to political power, or whom he helped during his political ascent, are extremely anti-Israel, or even outright anti-Semitic. Let's examine the views and careers of just a few of Obama's anti-Israel and/or anti-Semitic benefactors and protégés: http://www.familysecuritymatters.org...pub_detail.asp
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18th March 2009, 01:44 AM
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NO self defense and policing policies are not appartheid
But aren't most apartheid policies couched in defense and policing phrases?  Israel is no worse to the Palestinians than their Arab so called supporters.
So...Israel is no better then any other country in the middle east?  Then why not just admit you happen to like this particular group of bloody handed oppressors over the other groups of bloody handed oppressors in the middle east and stop pretending they're somehow better? ;scratch: Why wont they allow the Palestinians to move to their countries.
Why wont the Israelis just give them back their own country instead? 
tulc(just wondering) 
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18th March 2009, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by tulc But aren't most apartheid policies couched in defense and policing phrases?
So...Israel is no better then any other country in the middle east? Then why not just admit you happen to like this particular group of bloody handed oppressors over the other groups of bloody handed oppressors in the middle east and stop pretending they're somehow better? ;scratch:
Why wont the Israelis just give them back their own country instead?
tulc(just wondering)
Israel is better than many other countries in the middle east.
Israel should not give up the land they were given millenia ago.
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2 Timothy 2 : 23Don't have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels. 24And the Lord's servant must not quarrel; instead, he must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful. 25Those who oppose him he must gently instruct, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth, 26and that they will come to their senses and escape from the trap of the devil, who has taken them captive to do his will. |
18th March 2009, 05:55 PM
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Reps: 476,218,617,401,146,624 (power: 476,218,617,401,184) | | Originally Posted by Carey Israel is better than many other countries in the middle east.
...then why did you say they treated the Palestinians the same as every other country there? Israel should not give up the land they were given millenia ago.
uhmm when did 60 years ago become a millennia?
tulc(just wondering)
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18th March 2009, 06:05 PM
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Reps: 1,017,882,919,370,317,952 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by tulc ...then why did you say they treated the Palestinians the same as every other country there?
uhmm when did 60 years ago become a millennia?
tulc(just wondering)
It's in the Bible
Av(now you know) |
18th March 2009, 06:19 PM
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Av(now you know)
Ahhh! I get it!
tulc(thought they lost the land a long time ago?)
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18th March 2009, 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by tulc ...then why did you say they treated the Palestinians the same as every other country there?
uhmm when did 60 years ago become a millennia?
tulc(just wondering)
I said Israel treats them no worse.
I believe Israel is rather good to a peiople who are constantly attacking Israel.
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2 Timothy 2 : 23Don't have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels. 24And the Lord's servant must not quarrel; instead, he must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful. 25Those who oppose him he must gently instruct, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth, 26and that they will come to their senses and escape from the trap of the devil, who has taken them captive to do his will. |
19th March 2009, 12:12 AM
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Reps: 476,218,617,401,146,624 (power: 476,218,617,401,184) | | Originally Posted by Carey I said Israel treats them no worse.
Yeah, so they're no better then the other countries either.  I believe Israel is rather good to a peiople who are constantly attacking Israel.
...and I think if someone came in, took the land you and your family have lived on for generations, how long would you try and get the land back?
tulc(just wondering)
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19th March 2009, 03:32 AM
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Reps: 1,244,074,964,743 (power: 1,244,074,968) | | Originally Posted by tulc ...and I think if someone came in, took the land you and your family have lived on for generations, how long would you try and get the land back?
I don't believe that the "we were here first" argument can be applied to this situation. Sure, the Palestinians were here 60 years ago, then before that the Israelis were there, then there were the people that the Israelites drove out through bloody conquest.
Similarly, in Tibet, the modern day Tibetans had to drive out Han Chinese (IIRC) and now Han Chinese are occupying Tibet. Who has the more valid historical claim?
Of course it's possible to keep going farther and farther back, but in the end it boils down to "might makes right." And due to Israel's hefty military aid from the US, the struggle is a tad one-sided.
[/off topic] |
19th March 2009, 09:45 AM
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Reps: 476,218,617,401,146,624 (power: 476,218,617,401,184) | | Originally Posted by roflcopter101 I don't believe that the "we were here first" argument can be applied to this situation. Sure, the Palestinians were here 60 years ago, then before that the Israelis were there, then there were the people that the Israelites drove out through bloody conquest.
Similarly, in Tibet, the modern day Tibetans had to drive out Han Chinese (IIRC) and now Han Chinese are occupying Tibet. Who has the more valid historical claim?
Of course it's possible to keep going farther and farther back, but in the end it boils down to "might makes right." And due to Israel's hefty military aid from the US, the struggle is a tad one-sided.
[/off topic]
hmmmm Perhaps it can go back a long way. But the people fighting these battles today actually can name the people displaced to make way for this country to exist, so while the abstract argument makes sense I'm just wondering how the people who seem only interested in the Israeli side of the dispute would feel if they were the ones displaced to create the new nation? Would they quietly gather their children and parents and move on to someplace else?
tulc(never seems to get an answer to that question) 
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