So, according to the text, any two males caught in the act, even today, must be put to death ?
Since lesbianism is not addressed in the Law of Moses, women, were allowed to practice sex with one another?
The question comes up in the Talmud. the general consensus of the rabbis was that the Bible does not care whether two women "rub" one another.
The ban was, in their opinion only against one particular act, and only against taking one of the two "positions" involved in that act. They did not understand why both partners were condemned to death because they, had divorced this verse from its context. Both are condemned because it is not the act, but the fact that it is adultery. Just as both adulterers are condemned to death in verse 10, both adulterers are condemned in verse 13.
__________________ Do I claim that I am never wrong in what I've come to believe from my study of the Scriptures? Of course not. Then I would not be open to learning the truth when I still have so much more to learn. If I ever believed I knew all of God's truth, I'd be claiming to know the whole of God's mind -- I'd be, like Eve under the Serpent's influence, and like Nimrod, or whichever early king of Babel ordered the building of the Tower, and like the mad emperor Caligula, trying to become God
And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death. (KJV)
ואיש אשר ינאף את־אשת איש אשר ינאף את־אשת רעהו מות־יומת הנאף והנאפת׃
A husband who commits adultery with the wife of another husband -- he who commits adultery with his friend's wife -- the adulterer and the adulteress shall die. Leviticus 20:10
The next two verses deal with adultery that is not just with the wife of a friend or neighbor, but the wife of the father or the son. Adultery is not excused because it is kept in the family. Then we read this verse:
If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood [shall be] upon them. (KJV)
ואיש אשר ישכב את־זכר משכבי אשה תועבה עשו שניהם מות יומתו דמיהם בם׃
If a husband lies with a man in his wife's bed the two commit "abomination" (taboo). They will die. Blood upon them.
Leviticus 20:13
And verse 14 condemns sleeping with both a woman and her daughter -- even if you are married to one of them.
Verse 10 gives the general case. Verses 11-14 closes the loopholes. It is still adultery if it is with your mother or your stepmother. It is still adultery if it is with your daughter-in-law. It is still adultery if it is with your mother-in-law or with your step-daughter. And it is still adultery if it is a man and not a woman.
Or do you claim that just because these verses condemn adultery they condemn all sex?
Not necessarily all pointing to adultery Ollie because the one about the men says the word "woman" while the rest say "wife". So two different words there.
Such as this quote from above:
If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood [shall be] upon them. (KJV)
__________________ I am a visually handicapped person, so anything I copy and paste will have a very large font. I apologize for that but there is no other way I can use the computer. If I make the font smaller, I can't see.
And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death. (KJV)
ואיש אשר ינאף את־אשת איש אשר ינאף את־אשת רעהו מות־יומת הנאף והנאפת׃
A husband who commits adultery with the wife of another husband -- he who commits adultery with his friend's wife -- the adulterer and the adulteress shall die. Leviticus 20:10
The next two verses deal with adultery that is not just with the wife of a friend or neighbor, but the wife of the father or the son. Adultery is not excused because it is kept in the family. Then we read this verse:
If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood [shall be] upon them. (KJV)
ואיש אשר ישכב את־זכר משכבי אשה תועבה עשו שניהם מות יומתו דמיהם בם׃
If a husband lies with a man in his wife's bed the two commit "abomination" (taboo). They will die. Blood upon them.
Leviticus 20:13
And verse 14 condemns sleeping with both a woman and her daughter -- even if you are married to one of them.
Verse 10 gives the general case. Verses 11-14 closes the loopholes. It is still adultery if it is with your mother or your stepmother. It is still adultery if it is with your daughter-in-law. It is still adultery if it is with your mother-in-law or with your step-daughter. And it is still adultery if it is a man and not a woman.
Or do you claim that just because these verses condemn adultery they condemn all sex?
I am not claiming anything. This is a common question among religious scholars. This passage is about homosexuality, not just adultery.
Not necessarily all pointing to adultery Ollie because the one about the men says the word "woman" while the rest say "wife". So two different words there.
That is exactly where you are wrong. The word "ishah" ("wife") used in verse 13 is the same word used in verses 10-12.
In Hebrew there are three pairs of words often translated as "man" and "woman." One pair "zakar" and "neqebah" is better translated as "male" and "female" Another pair, "ish" and "ishah" are better translated as "husband" and "wife." Verse 13 uses "ish" and "ishah" except for the strange man in the wife's bed (he is "zakar") That is why I posted the Hebrew verses and translated them again.
__________________ Do I claim that I am never wrong in what I've come to believe from my study of the Scriptures? Of course not. Then I would not be open to learning the truth when I still have so much more to learn. If I ever believed I knew all of God's truth, I'd be claiming to know the whole of God's mind -- I'd be, like Eve under the Serpent's influence, and like Nimrod, or whichever early king of Babel ordered the building of the Tower, and like the mad emperor Caligula, trying to become God
I am not claiming anything. This is a common question among religious scholars. This passage is about homosexuality, not just adultery.
Thats actually questionable, a great many Biblical scholars believe this passage to refer to temple prostitution, where otherwise straight men had sex for ceremonial purposes, rather than to homosexuality as we understand the term today.
So, according to the text, any two males caught in the act, even today, must be put to death ?
Since lesbianism is not addressed in the Law of Moses, women, were allowed to practice sex with one another?
Originally Posted by OllieFranz
The question comes up in the Talmud. the general consensus of the rabbis was that the Bible does not care whether two women "rub" one another.
The ban was, in their opinion only against one particular act, and only against taking one of the two "positions" involved in that act. They did not understand why both partners were condemned to death because they, had divorced this verse from its context. Both are condemned because it is not the act, but the fact that it is adultery. Just as both adulterers are condemned to death in verse 10, both adulterers are condemned in verse 13.
I think it best to be silent where the Bible is silent. When one has to 'go outside the Bible' to find support for a doctrine, I think that is when one is in trouble. So just as the Bible does not address transexuality/transgender, the hermaphrite, and homosexual men and women, neither did the Law of Moses address lesbianism.
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Are some saying the Levitical Law was written just for men then? Are there any specific laws in Leviticus that pertain to women?
My post is in reply to Ollie Franz and Lighthorseman's posts thus far.
__________________ I am a visually handicapped person, so anything I copy and paste will have a very large font. I apologize for that but there is no other way I can use the computer. If I make the font smaller, I can't see.
HUNTINGMAN!!! Thank you. BRILLIANT. Intelligence is refreshing among the static. Solid argument. I doubt you want to be associated with me, but I think that we both agree that: The bible condemns homosexuality as a definite sin. It is an enumerated position. Correct?
Ah, the name. Good catch. Different allusion though.
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