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  #1  
Old 24th February 2009, 12:44 AM
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A false miracle

Hi,

I know someone who recently was going to a fairly mainstream Charismatic church.

The church was trying to arrange a miracle and control its outcome and then they were going to call it from God.

Due to various reasons, he has not publicly said anything against the church.

My opinion is that he doesn't need to come out and accuse any particular church of anything, but since he knows of something this messed-up, he should tell of what he knows. If he keeps it all to himself and a few people, is that the will of God?

Or should he tell more people?

AJ
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  #2  
Old 27th February 2009, 06:28 PM
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This is a hard question.
I am opposed to gossip of any kind.

I believe he should go, one on one with the pastor or whoever is manipulating this situation. If it has nothing to do with the Pastor, then the Pastor should be told.

Then leave it to the Pastor.

If it is not corrected, I recommend he leave this group or fellowship.
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  #3  
Old 28th February 2009, 01:43 AM
and all God's people said

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Originally Posted by ajqrszwn View Post
The church was trying to arrange a miracle and control its outcome and then they were going to call it from God.
what?
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  #4  
Old 1st March 2009, 04:47 AM
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To answer both Open Door and Peaceful Dove, the situation is actually pretty complicated and has been going on since about mid-2007.

See this link under Spirit-filled/Charismatics, where the main discussion is going on.

showthread.php?t=7345904

[note: I can't post links yet, I don't have 50 posts to my name.]

AJ

P.S. the church(es) in question are Protestant, not Catholic, but this is an issue that may affect all of Christendom.
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  #5  
Old 1st March 2009, 04:50 AM
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The person should tell the truth. Period.
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  #6  
Old 1st March 2009, 05:34 AM
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The whole truth? What if the whole truth hurts people?

AJ
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  #7  
Old 1st March 2009, 05:40 AM
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Yes of course the whole truth. Why protect people who are trying to take advantage of people? Your friend is like the multitude of people who stand by and do nothing, and let the guys get away with this stuff. How many centuries have people been coming up with "miracles" for their own gain? If the individuals would speak up, it would help solve the problem.

If someone did something against the law/or tried to take advantage of people, I would tell the authorities. I wouldn't care if it was the pope, my mom, or some stranger on the street.
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Old 1st March 2009, 06:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Atheian Libertarist View Post
Yes of course the whole truth. Why protect people who are trying to take advantage of people? Your friend is like the multitude of people who stand by and do nothing, and let the guys get away with this stuff. How many centuries have people been coming up with "miracles" for their own gain? If the individuals would speak up, it would help solve the problem.

If someone did something against the law/or tried to take advantage of people, I would tell the authorities. I wouldn't care if it was the pope, my mom, or some stranger on the street.
The thing is, my friend does not believe that the church is trying to take advantage of people. The church is trying to help themselves and their members. The situation is more complicated than I could possibly explain in a post.

I think there is a way to properly correct a Christian in error, and the way to do it is in gentleness.

In the main thread on this topic, under Spirit-filled/Charismatic, I mentioned that my friend wants to get rid of the harmful aspects while allowing the church(es) to retain harmless(?) lies, although it may not be possible to remove the harmful lies without affecting the harmless(?) lies.

AJ
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  #9  
Old 1st March 2009, 06:19 AM
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This seems clear cut.

Of course the church is trying to help themselves, they will benefit greatly from a "miracle". Who cares if they are a Christian? What if they were a 99 year old lady, who stole a CD from the store. Does the "99 year old lady" make a difference if its right or wrong? What is wrong with people?

Also- I love your idea of "harmless" and "harmful" lies. There is such a thing as a good lie, i.e. you tell Nazis that you are not hiding Jews in your attic, when in fact you are. But the "harmless" lies you are talking about here, are not "harmless" at all.
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Old 1st March 2009, 06:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Atheian Libertarist View Post
This seems clear cut.

Of course the church is trying to help themselves, they will benefit greatly from a "miracle". Who cares if they are a Christian? What if they were a 99 year old lady, who stole a CD from the store. Does the "99 year old lady" make a difference if its right or wrong? What is wrong with people?

Also- I love your idea of "harmless" and "harmful" lies. There is such a thing as a good lie, i.e. you tell Nazis that you are not hiding Jews in your attic, when in fact you are. But the "harmless" lies you are talking about here, are not "harmless" at all.
I guess I'm just not very good at explaining things....

I'll send you a blessing. Thank you for replying and giving advice (I suppose your main advice would be to get everything out in the open. I would be an advocate of getting the harmful stuff out in the open first, and then giving careful consideration as to whether the harmless(?) stuff should also be released).

When I reach 50 posts, I'll post a link to the main thread for this question under Spirit-Filled/Charismatic.

And I'll close down this thread.
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