The abomonation of desolation

stjesusfreak8 · #21 25th July 2009, 10:59 PM

Originally Posted by Benefactor

Eschatology and Dispensationalism are inseparable. The present dispensation of Grace is very Eschatological, and the 7th is yet in the future, eschatological.

When speaking of past dispensations they involve prophecies that are both first and Second Advent prophecies. Pre-millennial Pre-Tribulation Dispensationalism is intricately married to Eschatology. You don't have to accept that but those of us that are Dispy lovers clearly understand our position. You don't have to agree, that is your privileged, but we know what we believe and how it relates to the different disciplines of "Theology"

The abomination of desolation already happened in the first century during the lives of the apostles. Have we not read Matthew 24. Jesus specifically tells the apostles that all these things will happen to them and during their lives. Verse 34 specifically says all these things will happen during the generation that was hearing him. This generation always in scripture means the one living at the time it is being stated. Dispinsationalism is a false teaching invented by Darby in the 1840's and passed on by his pupil Schofield during the foundation of bible colleges in the early 20th century and still is the main doctrine of our theology because of this.

Codger · #22 24th November 2009, 05:43 PM

Daniel is an amazing book, he was allowed to look into the future about 600 years. He describes the succeeding kingdoms that would arise – ending with the Roman. He records the struggle with Antiochus and his successors. Sees Mark Antony, Cleopatra, Octavian, Herod all in their roles in history. He shows a period of 490 years from a decree until the stoning of Stephen, (70 weeks of years.) And finally the fall of Jerusalem. No you can't cut off the last week and move it two thousand six hundred plus years into the future like is popular to do today. There is no precident to do so. And there is no reason to do so because it fits the historical context perfectly as it is. The 70 weeks are continuous and like most prophesy of the period are pointing to the days of the Messiah only.

NIV Daniel 9:27
27 He [God] will confirm [not make a new Covenant] a covenant [Abrahamic] with many [Israel] for one seven [week of years]. In the middle of the seven he [God] will put an end to sacrifice and offering [the sacrifice of Jesus - once and for all]. And on a wing of the temple [a room in the Temple -The Chamber of Hewn stones - hall where the Sanhedrin met] he [God] will set up an abomination [the condemnation of Jesus] that causes desolation [Destruction of Israel and the end of the Old Covenant] until the end that is decreed [death by crucifixion] is poured out on him [Jesus - his suffering and death].

Comments:
27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one seven. Confirmation of the already existing "Covenant of Abraham." Confirm, meaning to make strong or to to reaffirm. No, I don't believe that this is the all elusive mysterious antichrist. "The pronouns "He" - is simply "God" and "him" is "Jesus" - very simple. We make everything so complicated. Wasn't it God himself who planned and brought about the crucifixion? Wasn't it the wrath of God that was poured out upon Jesus for our sake?

In the middle of the seven [the end of Jesus' ministry, he [God] will put an end to sacrifice and offering. God did this in making the final once and for all sacrifice of Jesus so that animals no longer had to be sacrificed. All the types and shadows of the past four thousand years were now fulfilled in Jesus. It was the dawn of the New Covenant - a much better Covenant.

And on a wing of the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him. What greater abomination can you find in all of history than the unjust condemnation of Jesus the perfect lamb of God? Some say that this relates to Titus and the fall of Jerusalem. The idea that the abomination was the Ensigns of the Roman army just doesn't fit. It's the Abomination-that-causes-Desolation – first the abomination and then later or afterward the Desolation which was caused by the abomination. The Temple was totally burned out and destroyed [desolation] before the "abomination" arrived in the form of the ensigns – it's backwards and also it doesn't make sense. Also, the Spirit of God left the Temple in 66AD and was camped over the Mount of Olives for about 3 ½ years – (just like it did before the destruction of the first temple) it was not possible to profane or desecrate the Temple at that time because it was just an empty burned out building. It was God who sanctified the Temple – not the gold - not anything else.

In short - the abomination was the condemnation of Jesus the perfect lamb of God. The desolation was the destruction of Israel as a nation. There were three "Abominations of desolation" mentioned by Daniel. The first was about Antiochus when he polluted the Temple and the city. The second was the Abomination of desolation, which was the condemnation of Jesus and resulted in the Destruction of the entire nation. The third was the Abomination of the Temple and city by the Zealots and the resulting desolation by Titus. The desolation of the second and third are interrelated.

I think the cross is the greatest event in the history of the world – all looked toward it before the tree and we look back on it. Our present day popular eschatology detracts from the significance of the cross by exporting endless scriptures to the future.

Larry

TehMill · #23 28th November 2009, 01:48 PM

Problem
*
Jesus told His disciples when you shall see the abomination of desolation, [standing where it ought not "room in the temple?"]then flee to the mountains let him who is on the housetop not go down into the house, woe to them that give suck, pray that your flight is not in winter, it is all flee flee for these are the days of affliction such has not been nor ever shall be [i.e. the great trib].

Son of Israel · #24 1st December 2009, 11:44 PM

The Abomination of Desolation was dealt with by Jesus when by Titus, He destroyed that whorish babylonian city Jerusalem in AD 70, burning her with fire as promised, as befitting the x-wife who widowed herself.

zeke37 · #25 28th January 2010, 11:12 AM

the A of D is the antiChrist himself...the false Messiah who shall fool the world.

all Christians (save the election) shall be deceived/beguiled/seduced by him...thinking he is jesus returned.
turned from virgins into whores.

the A of D is fortold in Daniel and most suspect it is a statue that is worshiped, but it is not....it is the supernatural miracle doing dictator who will be worshiped as God...2Thes2, Rev13

zeke37 · #26 28th January 2010, 11:14 AM

Originally Posted by beloved57

That doesnt disprove anything, but proves that you dont know what your talking about..

First of all, this scripture applies to believers..

secondly, it has nothing to do with a church service every sunday or wednesday night..

and when the circumstances allow, there can be literal coming together for fellowship, but when they dont, as in todays time we are living in, when antichrist has taken over the churches..believers must read their bibles and fellowship with the characters they read about in scripture..for though they are dead, their testimony and witness lives on..heb 12:

1Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,

another form of gathering together is when the elect witness the gospel of Jesus christ..

The main thing is encouragement in the Lord, you are sadly mistaken if you believe going to church as a formality is what God is talking about, you are deceived all the way around..

notice the "cloud" of witnesses? same cloud in 1Thes4's rapture...not atmospheric clouds, but the dead...the mass multitudes that come with Christ from heaven.

jon_8 · #27 28th January 2010, 01:09 PM

The abomination that causes desolation is in the world. As long as the restrainer (Holy Spirit) is in this world, he will not be revealed. This is a critical time; it is time to get close to God.

jon_8 · #28 28th January 2010, 01:14 PM

Jesus clearly gave indications as to what the endtimes are going to be and we see those signs fulfilling.

zeke37 · #29 1st February 2010, 08:14 AM

the Holy Spirit will never leave the World....

and Michael restrains Satan today, in heaven, as he did in Daniel, and does in Rev12
Satan's spirit is here today, and so is the Holy Spirit

soon, Satan's body will be cast out of heaven too,
and that will test the world
miracles, deception, looking like the lamb, fooling he Christians,
turning virgins (for Christ) into whores (for him...impregnated/with child),
getting folks to worship him as God on earth (thinking he was Jesus returned)

pre trib already teaches that the first supernatural being on the scene will be a rapturing Jesus....
but it will be the false one that comes first

it would not suprise me to see him use this false pre trib belief to his advantage,
as a tool to convince the world of his deity

a flood of lies, including being Jesus returned

vinsight4u · #30 1st February 2010, 02:22 PM

Daniel 9 does show a huge gap in time.

What people need to do is read the first part of the chapter before they head to the end of it.

Why?
Because Daniel was supplcating, and Gabriel was sent to help him understand that Jeremiah prophecy. So -that means within Daniel 9:24-27 must step into play the end part of the prophecy of Jeremiah that Daniel was supplicating over.

Notice that both verses 26 and 27 end "determined" times.